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Gildart in the Italian RLWC Squad
Post Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:40 am
Posted by DGM on Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:40 am
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http://www.rlwc2017.com/news/tedesco-an ... taly-squad

It's only a training squad for now, so there could be plenty of changes to be made yet, but I found it interesting to see Gildart's name in there.

Personally, I rate him really highly & think he should be in the England squad, but he could have Watkins, Shenton & Percival ahead of him in the pecking order. Good on him for sticking his hand up.
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Re: Gildart in the Italian RLWC Squad
Post Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:02 am
Posted by Grimmy on Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:02 am
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I really rate him, he's had a stormer this season IMO even though the team has underperformed, and he has had to adapt to personnel changes and return from a bad injury. Surely better to have him there around the squad at least with a view to developing him and putting pressure on the starters. I'm guessing Watkins and Percival will be the first choice but in case of injury I'd rather bring Gildart in than a 31 year old (Shenton). Having said all that, maybe he has decided he would rather start every game of the world cup for Italy rather than potentially watch it all from the stands for England.
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Re: Gildart in the Italian RLWC Squad
Post Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:14 am
Posted by DGM on Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:14 am
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Grimmy wrote:
I really rate him, he's had a stormer this season IMO even though the team has underperformed, and he has had to adapt to personnel changes and return from a bad injury. Surely better to have him there around the squad at least with a view to developing him and putting pressure on the starters. I'm guessing Watkins and Percival will be the first choice but in case of injury I'd rather bring Gildart in than a 31 year old (Shenton). Having said all that, maybe he has decided he would rather start every game of the world cup for Italy rather than potentially watch it all from the stands for England.


Totally agree, he's had a decent year for Wigan, and is my favourite centre to watch in the league. His footwork, lines & handling are all top class. Potentially a question mark over his size, although he is still young, and his defence isn't poor by any means.

I think the three mentioned above will be selected for the final 24-man squad, and taking a 4th centre would be pointless really, so as you say, 3 guaranteed games for Italy at the WC would be a great experience.
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Re: Gildart in the Italian RLWC Squad
Post Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:32 am
Posted by Aboveusonlypie on Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:32 am
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Grimmy wrote:
I really rate him, he's had a stormer this season IMO even though the team has underperformed, and he has had to adapt to personnel changes and return from a bad injury. Surely better to have him there around the squad at least with a view to developing him and putting pressure on the starters. I'm guessing Watkins and Percival will be the first choice but in case of injury I'd rather bring Gildart in than a 31 year old (Shenton). Having said all that, maybe he has decided he would rather start every game of the world cup for Italy rather than potentially watch it all from the stands for England.

Shenton and Percival are better centres than Gildart. Full stop. I don't see what age has got to do with it. The tournament is being played next month not next year.

I would say that only O'Loughlin and Bateman from Wigan deserve to be in the squad based on this year's performances. Maybe Farrell, but second row looks well catered for. As for Williams. Gale and Widdop will be first choices based on form, and Sneyd deserves it more, especially after totally out playing our half backs at Wembley in the type of big game that tests players.

No way Burgess gets in ahead of Hall or McGilvary (or even Eden). As for Tomkins, I'm afraid Hardaker has totally out performed him this season, and so has Shaul.
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Re: Gildart in the Italian RLWC Squad
Post Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:40 am
Posted by Grimmy on Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:40 am
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Aboveusonlypie wrote:
Shenton and Percival are better centres than Gildart. Full stop. I don't see what age has got to do with it. The tournament is being played next month not next year.

I would say that only O'Loughlin and Bateman from Wigan deserve to be in the squad based on this year's performances. Maybe Farrell, but second row looks well catered for. As for Williams, Gale and Widdop will be first choices based on form, and Sneyd deserves it more, especially after totally out playing our half backs at Wembley in the type of big game that tests players.

No way Burgess gets in ahead of Hall or McGilvary (or even Eden). As for Tomkins, I'm afraid Hardaker has totally out performed him this season, and so has Shaul.

Do we want to be constantly rebuilding though? I'd understand having Shenton in there if he was going to start, but to take him over as a reserve seems a waste of experience which would be better given to a player who will still be available for a decade. Largely agree with regards to the rest, I think S.Tomkins, J.Burgess, Williams and Farrell may just about sneak into the 24 man squad, but only as cover (maybe in the minority but I think Farrell is a better player than Bateman). There is only O'Loughlin who I would have in the 17 for likely his last England appearances
Frank Zappa wrote:
Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.
Re: Gildart in the Italian RLWC Squad
Post Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:03 pm
Posted by Aboveusonlypie on Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:03 pm
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Grimmy wrote:
Do we want to be constantly rebuilding though? I'd understand having Shenton in there if he was going to start, but to take him over as a reserve seems a waste of experience which would be better given to a player who will still be available for a decade. Largely agree with regards to the rest, I think S.Tomkins, J.Burgess, Williams and Farrell may just about sneak into the 24 man squad, but only as cover (maybe in the minority but I think Farrell is a better player than Bateman). There is only O'Loughlin who I would have in the 17 for likely his last England appearances

Fair point. I suppose if by some miracle we do get to the final and picked up a few injuries who would you want to face O'Neill, Dugan, Chambers, Jennings etc etc? I'd probably be happier playing Bateman at centre rather than Gildart.

I think you might be in the minority rating Faz over Bateman. I love Faz, never lets us down. But I'd have Bateman every time. I think it was Danny Lockwood who described Bateman as the sort of bloke who marches into a pub and says "right, I'll fight the lot of you!" I'd want Bateman in my team every time, especially against the Aussies.
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Re: Gildart in the Italian RLWC Squad
Post Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:36 pm
Posted by SecondRowSaint on Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:36 pm
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I rate Gildart, I think he's a cracking player. But at centre there's the out and out centres of Watkins, Percival and Shenton. On top of that, Bennett has used both Bateman and Hardaker there, so it wouldn't surprise me if he used them again.
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Re: Gildart in the Italian RLWC Squad
Post Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:16 pm
Posted by Grimmy on Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:16 pm
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Aboveusonlypie wrote:
Fair point. I suppose if by some miracle we do get to the final and picked up a few injuries who would you want to face O'Neill, Dugan, Chambers, Jennings etc etc? I'd probably be happier playing Bateman at centre rather than Gildart.

I think you might be in the minority rating Faz over Bateman. I love Faz, never lets us down. But I'd have Bateman every time. I think it was Danny Lockwood who described Bateman as the sort of bloke who marches into a pub and says "right, I'll fight the lot of you!" I'd want Bateman in my team every time, especially against the Aussies.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of Bateman, but size seems to really make a difference in internationals, and I remember the kiwis having no trouble at all dealing with him in the Huddersfield test. A smart player can also wind him up enough to get him penalised/binned/sent off (I'm thinking the Salford away game a couple of years ago, when he came off the bench, got binned straight away, came out of the bin and got red carded straight away, resulting in a tight loss, and Warrington at home this year when we would have had a scrum with a minute to go at 10 - 14 until he slapped one of their players to give them the penalty to seal the game). Farrell is a bit bigger and runs very good lines which could in theory cause them problems, plus he's the far more experienced player of the two, although granted he doesn't have the same aggression as Bateman. Probably academic anyway as I expect the back row to be Whitehead, S.Burgess, O'Loughlin and Ferres on the bench, unless they use McQueen/Heighington
Frank Zappa wrote:
Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.
Re: Gildart in the Italian RLWC Squad
Post Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:35 pm
Posted by Aboveusonlypie on Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:35 pm
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Grimmy wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of Bateman, but size seems to really make a difference in internationals, and I remember the kiwis having no trouble at all dealing with him in the Huddersfield test. A smart player can also wind him up enough to get him penalised/binned/sent off (I'm thinking the Salford away game a couple of years ago, when he came off the bench, got binned straight away, came out of the bin and got red carded straight away, resulting in a tight loss, and Warrington at home this year when we would have had a scrum with a minute to go at 10 - 14 until he slapped one of their players to give them the penalty to seal the game). Farrell is a bit bigger and runs very good lines which could in theory cause them problems, plus he's the far more experienced player of the two, although granted he doesn't have the same aggression as Bateman. Probably academic anyway as I expect the back row to be Whitehead, S.Burgess, O'Loughlin and Ferres on the bench, unless they use McQueen/Heighington

I know what you mean and I remember that Salford game. But I have to admit to being impressed with Bateman's discipline this season, when actually the discipline of everyone else seems to have suffered. Since the 'ban' he has controlled himself very well and I would have have no hesitation playing him for England. For his size he does seem to have freakish strength so the point about him being small, whilst being a fair point when talking about others, doesn't seem to apply to him IMO.

I agree with your choice. Ferres has never let England down and I have no problem with him being picked. I also think Burgess will play second row. We have Graham, Walmsley, Hill, Taylor and Watts for the front row and that is without the Burgess brothers who I think may be picked by the coach, but are inferior to those I've named.
"Imagine there's no heaven, it's easy if you try
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Re: Gildart in the Italian RLWC Squad
Post Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:36 pm
Posted by Grimmy on Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:36 pm
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Aboveusonlypie wrote:
I know what you mean and I remember that Salford game. But I have to admit to being impressed with Bateman's discipline this season, when actually the discipline of everyone else seems to have suffered. Since the 'ban' he has controlled himself very well and I would have have no hesitation playing him for England. For his size he does seem to have freakish strength so the point about him being small, whilst being a fair point when talking about others, doesn't seem to apply to him IMO.

I agree with your choice. Ferres has never let England down and I have no problem with him being picked. I also think Burgess will play second row. We have Graham, Walmsley, Hill, Taylor and Watts for the front row and that is without the Burgess brothers who I think may be picked by the coach, but are inferior to those I've named.

I've hardly managed to watch any NRL this year - were the Burgess brothers so bad? Adding three debutants at prop when we have those two to call upon is a big call. Agree about having Taylor in though, he should have been in last time as well.
Frank Zappa wrote:
Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.
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