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Posted by Joff on Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:43 am
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Couldn't agree more.

Take the risk or play it safe. The latter will keep rugby league stuck though going nowhere. The original breakaway was a risk and worked
Posted by ThePrinter on Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:02 am
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Oh an original thread topic, how refreshing.
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Posted by Sir Kevin Sinfield on Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:19 am
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Catalan Dragons, Brisbane Broncos, Canberra Raiders, Melbourne Storm, North Queensland Cowboys, New Zealand Warriors and PNG Hunters are all successful expansion clubs. The only way the game is going to grow is to expand into new regions, the alternative is a shrinking regional sport.
Posted by Judder Man on Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:09 am
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Biggest problem is that the RFL are so inept at promoting the game and expanding the sport within the UK they are just losing the plot trying to build a game off shores.

We have had London, South Wales, Tyneside and the Midlands to add something to Superleague but the RFL have failed, I remember quite a few years ago Mike Nicholas had some dutch backers to promote the game in a big way but Nigel Wood didn't allow it because there a risk of the RFL losing full control, instead Nigel lost control anyway, was so inept, the welsh club signed up a load of overseas players on holiday visas.

Then we had the situation of Warrington and Saints on behalf of the RFL promoting the game in the schools in the Glasgow area and then the clubs asked why are we promoting the sport in Glasgow when the big game final is going to be in Edinburgh.

Expand the game in the UK first, not on another continent.
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Posted by bramleyrhino on Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:17 am
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Judder Man wrote:
Biggest problem is that the RFL are so inept at promoting the game and expanding the sport within the UK they are just losing the plot trying to build a game off shores.


Why are the clubs always forgiven in this argument? The clubs are the ones that are responsible for promoting themselves, for expanding their own audiences, engaging new supporters, enhancing their appeal to corporate audiences and selling tickets and merchandise.

We have clubs arguing that the Super 8s makes it "impossible" to sell events, even though some clubs had 16 days+ between the S8 fixtures being announced and their first home game. We have clubs devaluing the sport by making entire fixtures free of charge, and we have clubs that simply nobody wants to go and watch. And we have clubs 'raffling' their stadium and sports sponsorship as if it's a meat hamper at a working mens club. None of that is the fault of the RFL.

The more we keep using the RFL as a lightning rod for these problems, the worse this problem will get.
I wish everyone would read bramleyrhino's post two or three times just to get it through some thick skulls


Mr bramleyrhino speaks a lot of sense.


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Posted by Someday on Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:18 am
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Sir Kevin Sinfield wrote:
Catalan Dragons, Brisbane Broncos, Canberra Raiders, Melbourne Storm, North Queensland Cowboys, New Zealand Warriors and PNG Hunters are all successful expansion clubs. The only way the game is going to grow is to expand into new regions, the alternative is a shrinking regional sport.

I agree with you we should try all places within a few hours flying ie Spain Germany Belgium even but I still think Toronto is to far to go
Posted by Mild Rover on Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:26 am
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ThePrinter wrote:
Oh an original thread topic, how refreshing.


Indeed.

I have removed the OP as it was clearly designed to annoy and provoke. The thread title should give sufficient flavour to make sense of what has followed, I hope.

Expansion is a legitimate topic for debate, and people are entitled to different opinions that they can discuss sensibly and respectfully.

What I don’t think we need is for every tiny facet to have its own thread, used as an excuse to put ‘new’ bait on the line.

On topic, I don’t understand why so many seem to see this as a zero-sum game. We could have strong heartlands clubs and growth in other parts of the country or world. They’re not mutually exclusive at all - indeed each makes the other more likely imo.
'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.
Posted by Mild Rover on Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:34 am
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bramleyrhino wrote:
Why are the clubs always forgiven in this argument? The clubs are the ones that are responsible for promoting themselves, for expanding their own audiences, engaging new supporters, enhancing their appeal to corporate audiences and selling tickets and merchandise.

We have clubs arguing that the Super 8s makes it "impossible" to sell events, even though some clubs had 16 days+ between the S8 fixtures being announced and their first home game. We have clubs devaluing the sport by making entire fixtures free of charge, and we have clubs that simply nobody wants to go and watch. And we have clubs 'raffling' their stadium and sports sponsorship as if it's a meat hamper at a working mens club. None of that is the fault of the RFL.

The more we keep using the RFL as a lightning rod for these problems, the worse this problem will get.


Biting the hand that feeds if you’re critical of your benefactor, and fans have an affection for their clubs that they lack for the RFL.

I don’t think the RFL has done a great job in recent years, but i do think they’re given a lot more responsibility than authority, and they do make a good lightening rod. Criticism of them not forcing clubs to have reserve teams being a good recent example.
'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.
Posted by Judder Man on Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:38 am
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bramleyrhino wrote:
Why are the clubs always forgiven in this argument? The clubs are the ones that are responsible for promoting themselves, for expanding their own audiences, engaging new supporters, enhancing their appeal to corporate audiences and selling tickets and merchandise.

We have clubs arguing that the Super 8s makes it "impossible" to sell events, even though some clubs had 16 days+ between the S8 fixtures being announced and their first home game. We have clubs devaluing the sport by making entire fixtures free of charge, and we have clubs that simply nobody wants to go and watch. And we have clubs 'raffling' their stadium and sports sponsorship as if it's a meat hamper at a working mens club. None of that is the fault of the RFL.

The more we keep using the RFL as a lightning rod for these problems, the worse this problem will get.


The current clubs can only promote the game at local level the primary function is to promote the playing product, for me the RFL should be doing much more at national level with a much broader marketing strategy. If they can do that and clubs outside the heartlands develop quicker than the traditional clubs then these weaker clubs will go back to amateur status.

As we have said many times before how can clubs promote the game at a higher level with big sponsors like Apple, O2, Guiness, Land Rover etc when the RFL governing body is profiling our sport to a Mushy Peas and Bet Fred standard, shouldn't that be the other way around. I should imagine when Superleague splits from the RFL this kind of situation would be the first corrective.
The new young dynasty of super saints is coming to a ground near you.
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Posted by Call Me God on Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:46 am
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1. I am a southerner, who is 100% in favour of expansion.
2. I don't trust the motives or the arguments for Toronto Wolfpack at all.
3. I believe that if we are to promote the game to new audiences, we should do so in a structured and planned manner, not at the whim of a rich bloke who can vanish as quickly as he arrived.....and I include Hughes, Davy and a hst of other benefactors in this, not just Argyle.
4. I am absolutely in favour of culling some of the deadwood clubs from SL in favour of "super" clubs such as Manchester, Liverpool, Birmingham, London, Southern France etc....the British sporting public have no interest in Wakefield v Leigh....2 town that most couldn't find on a map and that's our biggest problem.....the Wakefields and the Leighs holding the game back.
5. The Clubs have a responsibility to market themselves and the game. Failure to attract 9,000 as a minimum should result in the clubs central funding being halved. Then you'll see some innovative concepts and marketing ploys....instead of just sitting there waiting for the 1.8 million cheque to clear each year. Even Ken Davy would think long and hard about having to find another million a year to prop his toy up...
JESUS WEPT :WALL: HOW MANY TIMES?????
£20 a ticket and £15 on beer and merchandise.....so an away fan is worth £35. At best, 1,000 is the average away support split across 11 rounds and I am being really generous here, so Toronto, replacing say Wakefield will cost a SL club £35,000.
The minimum turnover of a SL club is £4,000,000 so Toronto instead of Widnes is worth less than 1% of a SL clubs turnover.

There are many valid reasons for and against expansion into America, but "AWAY FANS" isn't one of them. :BEAT:
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