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Great Britain Tour 2019
Post Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:14 pm
Posted by Muggins on Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:14 pm
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Is there any point in reverting to GB for this tour?

How many of the team and squad would be Scots, Welsh or Irish? Are we going to play heritage players like those teams do at the world cup? If you're eligible for Scotland at a world cup then you're eligible for GB in 2019 on the same basis, right?

Wouldn't it be better to just keep the England set up as it is and play as England as much as possible, especially against the Australians because we won't improve unless we play regularly against the best?

I'm just thinking that suppose there were a couple of non-English players that made the GB team/squad, you'd then have the situation where two of the current England players would lose their place for one tour. So, they would play at this world cup, against the Kiwis in 2018, but then lose their place for 2019 when it's GB before, presumably, returning in 2020 when it's England again. Equally, those non-English players that were selected for GB surely wouldn't be keen to return to playing for Scotland and Wales where they get smashed most of the time (at least against the top teams). For example, a year after playing for GB and hopefully being part of a competitive team against the Aussies, they're back playing for Scotland or Wales in a warm up game when the Kangaroos come over in 2020. Losing heavily in front of one man and his dog in Cumbria or whatever.

This is a different scenario to the rugby union British and Irish lions. That team doesn't disrupt (replace) the international teams as much because the likes of England RU play so many games for it not to be an issue. For example, England this year played in the six nations (5 games), plus they've had the autumn internationals (3 games), so it's not a case of when the British and Irish Lions play there is no international matches that year for England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland. I think I'm right that those teams even play at the same time as the Lions are on tour, just obviously minus their Lions selected players.

If it's the case that the GB team is going to be exactly the same as the current England team, then what is the point? Is it just to sell a different shirt and as a nod to tradition?

I'll support whatever team we play as, but I'm just not sure there's much point in this change. Maybe they should just give up on Scotland, Wales etc. and play as GB all the time, including world cups. We weakened ourselves by splitting up for the 1995 world cup because we could have had the likes of Jonathan Davies and Anthony Sullivan had we played as GB.

As far as I can tell the only point in having Scotland, Ireland and Wales is to help beef up the number of teams for a world cup. That's maybe a bit harsh but when you look at how much they rely on heritage players, I do wonder if they will ever become competitive with mostly home grown players.
Re: Great Britain Tour 2019
Post Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:31 pm
Posted by cravenpark1 on Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:31 pm
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Muggins wrote:
Is there any point in reverting to GB for this tour?

How many of the team and squad would be Scots, Welsh or Irish? Are we going to play heritage players like those teams do at the world cup? If you're eligible for Scotland at a world cup then you're eligible for GB in 2019 on the same basis, right?

Wouldn't it be better to just keep the England set up as it is and play as England as much as possible, especially against the Australians because we won't improve unless we play regularly against the best?

I'm just thinking that suppose there were a couple of non-English players that made the GB team/squad, you'd then have the situation where two of the current England players would lose their place for one tour. So, they would play at this world cup, against the Kiwis in 2018, but then lose their place for 2019 when it's GB before, presumably, returning in 2020 when it's England again. Equally, those non-English players that were selected for GB surely wouldn't be keen to return to playing for Scotland and Wales where they get smashed most of the time (at least against the top teams). For example, a year after playing for GB and hopefully being part of a competitive team against the Aussies, they're back playing for Scotland or Wales in a warm up game when the Kangaroos come over in 2020. Losing heavily in front of one man and his dog in Cumbria or whatever.

This is a different scenario to the rugby union British and Irish lions. That team doesn't disrupt (replace) the international teams as much because the likes of England RU play so many games for it not to be an issue. For example, England this year played in the six nations (5 games), plus they've had the autumn internationals (3 games), so it's not a case of when the British and Irish Lions play there is no international matches that year for England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland. I think I'm right that those teams even play at the same time as the Lions are on tour, just obviously minus their Lions selected players.

If it's the case that the GB team is going to be exactly the same as the current England team, then what is the point? Is it just to sell a different shirt and as a nod to tradition?

I'll support whatever team we play as, but I'm just not sure there's much point in this change. Maybe they should just give up on Scotland, Wales etc. and play as GB all the time, including world cups. We weakened ourselves by splitting up for the 1995 world cup because we could have had the likes of Jonathan Davies and Anthony Sullivan had we played as GB.

As far as I can tell the only point in having Scotland, Ireland and Wales is to help beef up the number of teams for a world cup. That's maybe a bit harsh but when you look at how much they rely on heritage players, I do wonder if they will ever become competitive with mostly home grown players.

Well unless I am wrong Jonathan Davis and Anthony Sullivan played for G Britain and is dad Sullivan helped to win the last world cup in fact he was captain and lots of welsh players played for G Britain and a few scots has well G Fairbairn for one so what is your point I do not get it
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Re: Great Britain Tour 2019
Post Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:46 pm
Posted by Muggins on Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:46 pm
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cravenpark1 wrote:
Well unless I am wrong Jonathan Davis and Anthony Sullivan played for G Britain and is dad Sullivan helped to win the last world cup in fact he was captain and lots of welsh players played for G Britain and a few scots has well G Fairbairn for one so what is your point I do not get it


I made various points in my post but specifically regarding those players it was that we weakened ourselves for the 1995 World Cup by playing as England, Wales, etc. rather than entering the competition as Great Britain. Davies and Sullivan played for Wales in that tournament. If we had competed as GB then they would have been available alongside the likes of Offiah, Robinson, Farrell, Goulding, etc. So, yes, those players both played for Great Britain, but it wasn't GB for the 95 world cup. Hope that makes sense.
Re: Great Britain Tour 2019
Post Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:55 pm
Posted by Psychedelic Casual on Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:55 pm
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If there’d been a Great Britain all along, Tyson Frizell might not be playing against England in the WC final this weekend and could be in the stands watching ready to play two test series for GB in 2018 and 2019.

He’s got no Aussie blood. He has one Welsh parent and one Samoan parent.

Maybe we can get him into the squad for 18+19 anyway?

What if Regan Grace becomes SL’s top winger in the next two years? Why deny him a chance to play in test series?

And long term it’s only a positive
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Re: Great Britain Tour 2019
Post Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:00 pm
Posted by SecondRowSaint on Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:00 pm
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Psychedelic Casual wrote:
If there’d been a Great Britain all along, Tyson Frizell might not be playing against England in the WC final this weekend and could be in the stands watching ready to play two test series for GB in 2018 and 2019.

He’s got no Aussie blood. He has one Welsh parent and one Samoan parent.

Maybe we can get him into the squad for 18+19 anyway?

What if Regan Grace becomes SL’s top winger in the next two years? Why deny him a chance to play in test series?

And long term it’s only a positive


Frizzell, Kane Linnett and Lachlan Coote were the ones I thought of.
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Re: Great Britain Tour 2019
Post Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:02 pm
Posted by Sir Kevin Sinfield on Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:02 pm
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No point in playing as Great Britain. England already don’t play enough games, the few games they do play shouldn’t be under two different names.
Re: Great Britain Tour 2019
Post Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:05 pm
Posted by Muggins on Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:05 pm
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Psychedelic Casual wrote:
What if Regan Grace becomes SL’s top winger in the next two years? Why deny him a chance to play in test series?


This is why I was asking the question. I just googled this chap. Firstly, I expect Wales RU will try and nab him, unless he goes off to the NRL in Australia. If he does stay in RL though, he's a good example of what I was asking about. Suppose he is selected for GB in 2019 and he is amazing. He scores five tries as we stuff the Aussies. What happens then? When will GB play again? Not in 2020, it would appear, because that's England again. So, what does he do? Go back to playing for Wales until the next GB tour in 2023 or whenever? That's going to be a bit of a come down for the poor lad.
Re: Great Britain Tour 2019
Post Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:40 pm
Posted by rollin thunder on Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:40 pm
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After the Australians attitude to this World Cup, I wouldn't go anyway what's the point, they don't want international RL.
Re: Great Britain Tour 2019
Post Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:58 pm
Posted by SecondRowSaint on Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:58 pm
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Muggins wrote:
This is why I was asking the question. I just googled this chap. Firstly, I expect Wales RU will try and nab him, unless he goes off to the NRL in Australia. If he does stay in RL though, he's a good example of what I was asking about. Suppose he is selected for GB in 2019 and he is amazing. He scores five tries as we stuff the Aussies. What happens then? When will GB play again? Not in 2020, it would appear, because that's England again. So, what does he do? Go back to playing for Wales until the next GB tour in 2023 or whenever? That's going to be a bit of a come down for the poor lad.


Why would it? He's a proud Welsh lad, so playing for Wales and even GB should be the highlight of his career.
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Re: Great Britain Tour 2019
Post Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:13 am
Posted by Muggins on Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:13 am
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SecondRowSaint wrote:
Why would it? He's a proud Welsh lad, so playing for Wales and even GB should be the highlight of his career.


So you don't think he'd be slightly envious and disappointed when in 2020 England play Australia in a three match series and he can't play, despite having toured and played with the bulk of those England players the previous year?

It's not a question of him not being proud to be Welsh - it's about wanting to play at the highest possible level and test yourself against the best in the biggest games and in front of big crowds. He won't get that playing for Wales RL.

I don't know how he feels so I'm only hypothesising, but if I was him I'd be disappointed to play for Great Britain one year and then be back in the Wales team thereafter. One year you're playing in front of 40000 in Brisbane, the next you're playing in front of 1000 in Wrexham.
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