Re: What's happened to our £1/2M Pledge money? : Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:07 am  

The black hole is Odsal!

Sadly, our iconic stadium is the one thing that continues to cost more money than it generates.

Under the agreement that we had with BMDC prior to the 2003 return, we paid a peppercorn rent and everything was provided for us. The maintainance staff, groundstaff, barstaff, safety certificates, bar stock, all came from the council for this tiny sum.

Our BoD wanted to "explore revenue streams" such as bar takings and corporate hospitality and so drew up the new deal which we were bound by until about January this year. where by we pay a similar peppercorn rent, but are responsible for the upkeep of the ground, in exchange for doing our own deals on the bars / hospitality etc...

Sadly, IMO, this is a bigger mistake than the whole Harris saga on Caisley's part (and those directors in 2002/3 who sanctioned it).

A relative of mine works for BMDC and spent hours at Odsal over the years doing a lot of work to enable the stadium to get its safety certificate. all of which was done from the public purse! Since 2003, this has all come from the club's coffers. and that's just one aspect of the stadium's upkeep. Did the club seriously expect the building of the Coral stand to bring in enough revenue to a, pay for itself over time, and b, bring in enough additional income to cover the increased costs?

That to me, is the biggest error of judgement, and explains a lot about where our "black hole" is!


By selling the lease to the RFL earlier this year, Peter Hood tried to close the black hole he had, by creating a much larger blackhole to cover it up! We now pay more rent, and still ahev all the maintainance to do!

So as usual, neither the Hood nor the Caisley regimes past and present come out of this looking anything other than daft! The only crumb of comfort we can find in this, is that it seems both parties were clinging on to some hope of keeping the club afloat, albeit rather misguidedly.

Re: What's happened to our £1/2M Pledge money? : Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:18 pm  

isaac1 wrote:

The black hole is Odsal!

Sadly, our iconic stadium is the one thing that continues to cost more money than it generates.

Under the agreement that we had with BMDC prior to the 2003 return, we paid a peppercorn rent and everything was provided for us. The maintainance staff, groundstaff, barstaff, safety certificates, bar stock, all came from the council for this tiny sum.

Our BoD wanted to "explore revenue streams" such as bar takings and corporate hospitality and so drew up the new deal which we were bound by until about January this year. where by we pay a similar peppercorn rent, but are responsible for the upkeep of the ground, in exchange for doing our own deals on the bars / hospitality etc...

Sadly, IMO, this is a bigger mistake than the whole Harris saga on Caisley's part (and those directors in 2002/3 who sanctioned it).

A relative of mine works for BMDC and spent hours at Odsal over the years doing a lot of work to enable the stadium to get its safety certificate. all of which was done from the public purse! Since 2003, this has all come from the club's coffers. and that's just one aspect of the stadium's upkeep. Did the club seriously expect the building of the Coral stand to bring in enough revenue to a, pay for itself over time, and b, bring in enough additional income to cover the increased costs?

That to me, is the biggest error of judgement, and explains a lot about where our "black hole" is!


By selling the lease to the RFL earlier this year, Peter Hood tried to close the black hole he had, by creating a much larger blackhole to cover it up! We now pay more rent, and still ahev all the maintainance to do!

So as usual, neither the Hood nor the Caisley regimes past and present come out of this looking anything other than daft! The only crumb of comfort we can find in this, is that it seems both parties were clinging on to some hope of keeping the club afloat, albeit rather misguidedly.

I don't see how the maintenance cost is that high. The terraces aren't crumbling.

Re: What's happened to our £1/2M Pledge money? : Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:55 am  

Just going through the process of renewing the safety certificate periodically runs into tens of thousands. Also, because the stadium is built on a former landfill site, there are issues there too that are expensive and cost the club, rather than the council as was under the previous agreement.

Re: What's happened to our £1/2M Pledge money? : Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:04 am  

isaac1 wrote:

Just going through the process of renewing the safety certificate periodically runs into tens of thousands. Also, because the stadium is built on a former landfill site, there are issues there too that are expensive and cost the club, rather than the council as was under the previous agreement.

Do you know that as fact? And that its tens of thousands more than for VP?

It seems to be a generally accepted fact that Odsal costs a fortune, but as Bull Mania says, the ground isn't falling apart and there's rarely any signs of repair or maintenance work being carried out. I've always been sceptical about the costs of Odsal since Caisley claimed, just before the last move to VP, that £10m had to be spent on the ground immediately to retain the safety certificate.

It may well be that there's a strong financial case for a move. Ground sharing should be more economical. But I dont expect the rent at VP to be much less than Odsal. And its essential that any financial analysis factors in the loss of revenue from lower attendances (£100-£200k pa ?). And last, but not least, the potential loss of our SL license.

Re: What's happened to our £1/2M Pledge money? : Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:09 am  

Cibaman wrote:

Do you know that as fact? And that its tens of thousands more than for VP?

It seems to be a generally accepted fact that Odsal costs a fortune, but as Bull Mania says, the ground isn't falling apart and there's rarely any signs of repair or maintenance work being carried out. I've always been sceptical about the costs of Odsal since Caisley claimed, just before the last move to VP, that £10m had to be spent on the ground immediately to retain the safety certificate.

It may well be that there's a strong financial case for a move. Ground sharing should be more economical. But I dont expect the rent at VP to be much less than Odsal. And its essential that any financial analysis factors in the loss of revenue from lower attendances (£100-£200k pa ?). And last, but not least, the potential loss of our SL license.

Don't forget that whatever expenses are involved in VP would be halved as we would be sharing the stadium. Everything Odsal related is on our shoulders only.

Re: What's happened to our £1/2M Pledge money? : Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:17 am  

Nothus, thats the point I was going to make. sharing the cost means we'd only pay half!

Remember, the oldest publicly accessible parts of Odsal, that are open on a match day are about 80 years old, whereas at Valley Parade the oldest part is 26 years old! That would have a massive bearing on the cost of maintainance / ease of obtaining a safety cert.

also, we only see Odsal on about 20/365 days per year.

The salaries of the stadium staff are the club's responsibility post 2003, which they were'nt before.

Re: What's happened to our £1/2M Pledge money? : Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:19 am  

also, how much money does the club spend on testing everything? I had a paid electrician come into my work place yesterday and check my kettle. he wasnt doing it for free was he?? we dont only pay for works that we see, is the point I am making (Badly)

[Bulliac]

Re: What's happened to our £1/2M Pledge money? : Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:54 pm  

isaac1 wrote:

Nothus, thats the point I was going to make. sharing the cost means we'd only pay half!

Who says we'll only pay half?

I keep reading this stuff and there is absolutely no justification whatever for thinking we can just waltz in and pay halves, like some friend asking a favour. The pension fund/City, whoever is responsible for sub-letting at VP, will want as much as they can get - who could blame them? It's straight supply and demand and our willingness to pay what they ask will depend on how much we need the ground and how the cost/expenses arithmetic measures up with the current costs at Odsal.

Re: What's happened to our £1/2M Pledge money? : Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:36 pm  

why as much as half....they have 23 home league games plus cups etc etc........Bulls would have only 13 SL games......

Re: What's happened to our £1/2M Pledge money? : Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:02 pm  

Bulliac wrote:

Who says we'll only pay half?

I keep reading this stuff and there is absolutely no justification whatever for thinking we can just waltz in and pay halves, like some friend asking a favour. The pension fund/City, whoever is responsible for sub-letting at VP, will want as much as they can get - who could blame them? It's straight supply and demand and our willingness to pay what they ask will depend on how much we need the ground and how the cost/expenses arithmetic measures up with the current costs at Odsal.

dont forget City arent flush with cash either!

it6s not a case of them having us over a barrell!

We'd be looking to use VP for between 13-17 matchdays, providing we can find somewhere else to host our reserve/age group teams.