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Re: Future of the Game
Post Sat May 23, 2020 10:26 am
Posted by djhudds on Sat May 23, 2020 10:26 am
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https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-fo ... 84088.html

Looks like New York company registered here, hardly screams wealth
Re: Future of the Game
Post Sat May 23, 2020 10:51 am
Posted by wrencat1873 on Sat May 23, 2020 10:51 am
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Donnyman wrote:
AH!! Now don't forget you brought this up, but your post appears to be a damning appraisal of the RFL's new NA clubs. I have been wondering about why when TWP failed to produce any players, failed to find any TV deals and it's debatable just how many paying fans they really have, PLUS Superleague clubs have called them out for this, Perez and Wilby were cheerfully holding press conferences hailing the onward march of the North American dream, with Wilby breaking his neck to insist New York (who are supposed to start 2022) will start with a season of friendlies also 2021.

I can only conclude this is to put pressure on SL not to pull the plug on the project or they may face bad publicity - you know the headline "RL fails to breakthrough in NA" sort of thing. However I didn't see any bad publicity when the RL world pulled the plug on the World Cup in the USA. I don't think anyone would care if it's all pulled.


Straws at and clutching spring to mind. :oops:

The crux of your argument against TWP is that they have yet to secure a TV deal, which means that TWP lose out and that they haven't yet developed any of their own players.
The first part of this is of no detriment of the rest of SL and the second part ?? did you expect them to be fielding 8 or 9 Canadian born players ?? really ??

Your final paragraph is mere conjecture.

Also, lets look at some of the plusses of their being.

2 promotions in 5 seasons from League 1 and then winning the MPG to secure promotion.
An average of 700+ fans to their home games - which for any League 1 club, even allowing for some spin on the numbers is a fantastic effort for a new club playing an "alien" sport in a new country.
Perhaps it would be worth comparing their League 1 home gates with the 4 clubs that you would like to use to replace them and remembering of course, that 3 of them have been around for significantly longer than TWP and although he hasn't exactly set the comp on fire, they also secured the signing of one of the highest profile RL players on the planet but, let's ignore this because you dont like them :oops:

Considering that we are only one and a bit seasons away from the new league structure that you are so utterly certain about, do you think that it would be sensible for some kind of vote and ratification to take place - which I think would need agreement of all of the professional clubs and not just Mr Lenegan and your good self.
Re: Future of the Game
Post Sat May 23, 2020 11:26 am
Posted by Someday on Sat May 23, 2020 11:26 am
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wrencat1873 wrote:
Straws at and clutching spring to mind. :oops:

The crux of your argument against TWP is that they have yet to secure a TV deal, which means that TWP lose out and that they haven't yet developed any of their own players.
The first part of this is of no detriment of the rest of SL and the second part ?? did you expect them to be fielding 8 or 9 Canadian born players ?? really ??

Your final paragraph is mere conjecture.

Also, lets look at some of the plusses of their being.

2 promotions in 5 seasons from League 1 and then winning the MPG to secure promotion.
An average of 700+ fans to their home games - which for any League 1 club, even allowing for some spin on the numbers is a fantastic effort for a new club playing an "alien" sport in a new country.
Perhaps it would be worth comparing their League 1 home gates with the 4 clubs that you would like to use to replace them and remembering of course, that 3 of them have been around for significantly longer than TWP and although he hasn't exactly set the comp on fire, they also secured the signing of one of the highest profile RL players on the planet but, let's ignore this because you dont like them :oops:

Considering that we are only one and a bit seasons away from the new league structure that you are so utterly certain about, do you think that it would be sensible for some kind of vote and ratification to take place - which I think would need agreement of all of the professional clubs and not just Mr Lenegan and your good self.

You said 2 promotions in 5 yrs if you had a new team and spent that sort of money on players most have been cast offs from super league or Australia you would do the same and get promoted twice with you playing against mostly part timers
Re: Future of the Game
Post Sat May 23, 2020 12:20 pm
Posted by The Silent H on Sat May 23, 2020 12:20 pm
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Donnyman wrote:
You are wrong........I'm afraid that "media cut through" and "exposure" are neither of the criteria that are asked of overseas clubs, they are asked to produce SL quality players and paying TV deals that can be added to the pot here. Please don't keep asking me to provide links to reality then make these things up yourself. If you want a link it's there on you tube where Perez tells Dave Woods that north american clubs will add players to the the professional player pool here and find big NATV deals to share with the clubs here. It's important we all stick to these criteria and not make them up. You also know the TWP crowd is challenged on the count, whether attendees are going in free and whether attendees are actually attending the action on the pitch or are just "here for the beer"

I like how when you can't provide links or evidence you just change the argument or provide a bad excuse like an inept politician, while what you have said above has no reference to my original post which was comparing rl and Union exposure in Canada, which, like it or not, Toronto has been successful at.

1. Where is the evidence of the Rfl deal that led to London's demise regarding the Mpg? Just one quote or snippet from anyone, it's not that hard surely or just admit you made it up.

2. Why would people pay for a ticket to the game to then go buy beer when they could just go to the pub?

3. The ''rl world'' didn't pull the World Cup from North America, the promoter Moore Sports went broke. It had no connection to Toronto whatsoever.

Either provide the facts or stick to the facts, it's pretty simple. No fantasy stuff anymore please.
Re: Future of the Game
Post Sat May 23, 2020 1:17 pm
Posted by IR80 on Sat May 23, 2020 1:17 pm
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The Silent H wrote:
I like how when you can't provide links or evidence you just change the argument or provide a bad excuse like an inept politician, while what you have said above has no reference to my original post which was comparing rl and Union exposure in Canada, which, like it or not, Toronto has been successful at.

1. Where is the evidence of the Rfl deal that led to London's demise regarding the Mpg? Just one quote or snippet from anyone, it's not that hard surely or just admit you made it up.

2. Why would people pay for a ticket to the game to then go buy beer when they could just go to the pub?

3. The ''rl world'' didn't pull the World Cup from North America, the promoter Moore Sports went broke. It had no connection to Toronto whatsoever.

Either provide the facts or stick to the facts, it's pretty simple. No fantasy stuff anymore please.

Donnyman does not trade in facts, accusation and xenophobia, a smattering of "this t're fields whe I wur t'lad" Hovis theme tune in the background, maybe he'll recite "for 'es a jolly good fella" with pictures of Alf Garnet. He'l tell us next that Soltaire is centre o t weaving universe.
Re: Future of the Game
Post Sat May 23, 2020 5:25 pm
Posted by wrencat1873 on Sat May 23, 2020 5:25 pm
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Someday wrote:
You said 2 promotions in 5 yrs if you had a new team and spent that sort of money on players most have been cast offs from super league or Australia you would do the same and get promoted twice with you playing against mostly part timers


Totally agree but, the fact remains that they have done what was required/expected of them on the field and as far as attendances go, not bad on the terraces either.
Our "friend" likes to stick the boot in at every opportunity and it's important to have some balance to the discussion.

With the kind of financial backing that they have, it would have been better to start them off in the Championship or maybe put them straight into SL, with exemption from relegation (as they did with Catalan) but, his head would have then exploded completely.

I actually agree with him that N .American clubs dont really fit into SL (or the Championship) and there should be some kind of defined public long term plan for the game but, where I massively disagree is that having embarked on N .American expansion, it shouldn't just be binned off after a few seasons, especially as TWP, despite their shortcomings on the player development side of things, have done everything asked of them on the field of play.

And, just for Donnymans benefit, TWP would probably have a better chance of doing some of the off field stuff if they had some certainty about their future in SL. I'll get my tin hat ready :D
Re: Future of the Game
Post Sat May 23, 2020 9:24 pm
Posted by HXSparky on Sat May 23, 2020 9:24 pm
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wrencat1873 wrote:
Straws at and clutching spring to mind. :oops:

The crux of your argument against TWP is that they have yet to secure a TV deal, which means that TWP lose out and that they haven't yet developed any of their own players.
The first part of this is of no detriment of the rest of SL and the second part ?? did you expect them to be fielding 8 or 9 Canadian born players ?? really ??

Your final paragraph is mere conjecture.

Also, lets look at some of the plusses of their being.

2 promotions in 5 seasons from League 1 and then winning the MPG to secure promotion.
An average of 700+ fans to their home games - which for any League 1 club, even allowing for some spin on the numbers is a fantastic effort for a new club playing an "alien" sport in a new country.
Perhaps it would be worth comparing their League 1 home gates with the 4 clubs that you would like to use to replace them and remembering of course, that 3 of them have been around for significantly longer than TWP and although he hasn't exactly set the comp on fire, they also secured the signing of one of the highest profile RL players on the planet but, let's ignore this because you dont like them :oops:

Considering that we are only one and a bit seasons away from the new league structure that you are so utterly certain about, do you think that it would be sensible for some kind of vote and ratification to take place - which I think would need agreement of all of the professional clubs and not just Mr Lenegan and your good self.


LOL!
Re: Future of the Game
Post Sun May 24, 2020 7:31 am
Posted by Donnyman on Sun May 24, 2020 7:31 am
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Posts: 686
wrencat1873 wrote:
Straws at and clutching spring to mind. :oops:

The crux of your argument against TWP is that they have yet to secure a TV deal, which means that TWP lose out and that they haven't yet developed any of their own players.
The first part of this is of no detriment of the rest of SL and the second part ?? did you expect them to be fielding 8 or 9 Canadian born players ?? really ??

Considering that we are only one and a bit seasons away from the new league structure that you are so utterly certain about, do you think that it would be sensible for some kind of vote and ratification to take place - which I think would need agreement of all of the professional clubs and not just Mr Lenegan and your good self.


Thanks for this, but you make up your own version of "My argument" and then conveniently knock it down, forgetting a few inconvenient facts along the way :D Again read TWP's own promises on what they would bring to the game here in return for entry to the game here.

1. A large paying North American TV deal.
2. Professional quality Rugby League players converted "pretty quickly" from thousands of young athletes schooled in Grid Iron.

It's London Broncos who are actually "missing out" who happen to be supported by Lenegan, as for pretending Lenegan is on his own and doesn't actually lead the other SL chairmen, well your ignoring reality. Just like Mr. Perez :wink: however I may be wrong - read on.........
Last edited by Donnyman on Sun May 24, 2020 8:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Future of the Game
Post Sun May 24, 2020 7:38 am
Posted by Donnyman on Sun May 24, 2020 7:38 am
Donnyman Cheeky half-back
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Posts: 686
djhudds wrote:
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-65684088.html

Looks like New York company registered here, hardly screams wealth


https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/start- ... 548s0.html

Read this and you will hear the screams faintly on the wind when it is coming from the west :lol: :lol: :lol:

"Two private backers have committed more than $50 million to underwrite the club for the first five years. The team hasn’t yet got an official name, coach or playing squad, although that will soon change now that the RFL has allowed it to enter its competition"s. No mention of Superleague's ratification of New York. HOWEVER Since then the game has changed and Superleague appear to be moving back in with the RFL to unify the game here, with one governing body again. So I guess there may be a game wide discussion over the summer as to league structures and whether the green light is on for Montreal, Boston and Vancouver to follow Toronto Ottawa and New York, and also Toulouse follow Les Catalans.

If the league is to be

Montreal
Wigan
Toulouse
Vancouver
Leeds
Boston
Saints
Toronto
Ottawa
Hull
Les Catalans
Perth (Lenegan said it not me :wink: )

Then we have a very exciting future ahead of us. Now to be realistic there may be some teething troubles along the way but surely (as I am frequently told) it's expand or die?? Discuss???
Re: Future of the Game
Post Sun May 24, 2020 11:38 am
Posted by Ornery Optimist on Sun May 24, 2020 11:38 am
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Posts: 3597
It would seem that Lenagan chap is quite contradictory - one one hand you state he is against overseas sides in Super League - bit on the other,he would welcome Perth;as would the NRL.

I have no doubt Lenagan would welcome his club,that being Wigan and not any of his imagined clubs he helps finance,being in any European League.

But Covid19 will have put paid to that in the immediate future.

Trying to finance the M62 corridor clubs is going to be difficult enough.

The Super League that Donnyman has shown in the above post seems to have missed out the good ol' USA sides.

That league,with those clubs,won't be happening.
No reserves,but resilience,persistence and determination are omnipotent.
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