Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:30 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

IF we were definitely leaving then and anyone had the faintest idea on what terms we were going to leave, these signs MAY be useful ut, right now, NOBODY has got a clue, therefore, they are a waste of time, effort and money.

in your opinion, which is somewhat jaundiced.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:25 pm  

bren2k wrote:

We can at least acknowledge that the racist fuelled hysteria about Asian grooming gangs is a convenient proxy for a certain ideology? And like the last racist who brought it up on here, you will utterly fail to engage with the statistic that I provided - because it's an inconvenient truth.

Again - child sex offences are abhorrent; 90% of them are committed by white men.

Are you saying that grooming gangs have nothing to do with Islam - the respect for women in that culture? Its just a load of rogue men that just happen by chance to be all Asian that follow the Koran? You are deflecting away from what is a despicable act by suggesting anyone who brings it up has an agenda.

Completely agree re the stats, these men are evil to the core and if caught need to be dealt with in the most severe way. - incest is an always will be around - if you believe the Bible - I don't myself - it is the foundation of the human race. Incest is by far the greatest cause of child sex offences, how much is actually reported?

That wasn't the argument was it - it was that the referendum has increased the levels of hate crime, that would infer that crimes against other Europeans has increased. The point I was making is that it may have had a short term impact 3 years ago but now its minimal. Far more LBGT hate crime than that against EU citizens resident in the UK.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:42 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Are you saying that grooming gangs have nothing to do with Islam - the respect for women in that culture? Its just a load of rogue men that just happen by chance to be all Asian that follow the Koran? You are deflecting away from what is a despicable act by suggesting anyone who brings it up has an agenda.

No, I absolutely am not saying that, as would be evident to anyone who read the actual words I had typed.

What I'm very definitely saying is that 90% of child sexual offences are committed by white men, and that therefore, the outrage about the relatively small number of child sexual offences committed by Asian men, is disproportionate and is fuelled by racism and intolerance - because the ethnicity of the offender is a useful proxy for the agendas of Stephen Yaxley Lennon and his dim-witted disciples.

For example, there has been child sexual abuse on an industrial scale in the Catholic church, for decades; I don't see any organised protests against the Catholic church, or a call for that religion to be outlawed, or for its members to be deported or barred entry. Equally, the Far Right has its fair share of nonces - again, I see no condemnation from people like you about that.

Do you get it now?

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:56 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Are you saying that grooming gangs have nothing to do with Islam - the respect for women in that culture? Its just a load of rogue men that just happen by chance to be all Asian that follow the Koran? You are deflecting away from what is a despicable act by suggesting anyone who brings it up has an agenda.

Completely agree re the stats, these men are evil to the core and if caught need to be dealt with in the most severe way. - incest is an always will be around - if you believe the Bible - I don't myself - it is the foundation of the human race. Incest is by far the greatest cause of child sex offences, how much is actually reported?

That wasn't the argument was it - it was that the referendum has increased the levels of hate crime, that would infer that crimes against other Europeans has increased. The point I was making is that it may have had a short term impact 3 years ago but now its minimal. Far more LBGT hate crime than that against EU citizens resident in the UK.

The hate crime that we see now is all part of the same narrative, that it is ok to prejudice minority groups., either on race, colour, creed etc, etc.
Propagated by the "leader of the western world, Donald Trump and followed by his disciples, like Farage and his ilk.
You tried to deflect the increase in hate crimes by throwing grooming gangs into the pot and although nobody is saying that they dont happen or, trying to underplay what goes on, you seem to wish to steer the attention from the right wing, white males that are largely in "control" of our country-
Let us not forget Mr Johnsons own language "ninjah's" and "letterbox's" isn't the most appropriate language for our Prime Minister to use and is less than helpful in a multicultural society.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:48 am  

bren2k wrote:

No, I absolutely am not saying that, as would be evident to anyone who read the actual words I had typed.

What I'm very definitely saying is that 90% of child sexual offences are committed by white men, and that therefore, the outrage about the relatively small number of child sexual offences committed by Asian men, is disproportionate and is fuelled by racism and intolerance - because the ethnicity of the offender is a useful proxy for the agendas of Stephen Yaxley Lennon and his dim-witted disciples.

For example, there has been child sexual abuse on an industrial scale in the Catholic church, for decades; I don't see any organised protests against the Catholic church, or a call for that religion to be outlawed, or for its members to be deported or barred entry. Equally, the Far Right has its fair share of nonces - again, I see no condemnation from people like you about that.

Do you get it now?

I think there has been significant protests against the Catholic church - plenty of people would like to see a more appropriate response from the Vatican. Like Islam in its strongholds the Catholic Church wields enormous power that belittles mere governments and as such seem above the law.

I suppose the far left is nonce free?

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:27 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

The hate crime that we see now is all part of the same narrative, that it is ok to prejudice minority groups., either on race, colour, creed etc, etc.
Propagated by the "leader of the western world, Donald Trump and followed by his disciples, like Farage and his ilk.
You tried to deflect the increase in hate crimes by throwing grooming gangs into the pot and although nobody is saying that they dont happen or, trying to underplay what goes on, you seem to wish to steer the attention from the right wing, white males that are largely in "control" of our country-
Let us not forget Mr Johnsons own language "ninjah's" and "letterbox's" isn't the most appropriate language for our Prime Minister to use and is less than helpful in a multicultural society.

So are you now saying hate crime is due to Donald Trump and in reality has nothing to do with the referendum

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:12 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

So are you now saying hate crime is due to Donald Trump and in reality has nothing to do with the referendum

No, I'm saying that the likes of Trump, Farage etc are contributing to the society that we all live in and not in a positive manner.
Although there has always been racism and always will be, the rhetoric and anti immigration used by Farage & co during the referendum help legitimise certain elements in this country into thinking that it was ok to single out people with different skin colour or foreign accents and having Boris over here and Trump in the states, with their own "white first" views perpetuates the situation, you can also chuck social media into the pot, which makes it all too easy for people to voice their racist viewpoints, something that just wasn't around previously.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:19 am  

I see Sal has skilfully deflected the conversation into (unsavoury) far right talking points and away from the stuff he wasn't able to answer about the detail of our trading relationship with Europe.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:31 am  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

I see Sal has skilfully deflected the conversation into (unsavoury) far right talking points and away from the stuff he wasn't able to answer about the detail of our trading relationship with Europe.

We have discussed this endlessly you think there will be queues everywhere because "you are in the business" I disagree because evidence suggests plenty of product from outside of the EU flows seamlessly into the EU so why should that change because the product is either flowing in or out of the UK. Even the bossman at Dover has seen significant changes and doesn't see the same level of disruption as was forecast.

Ireland is an island and as such there are limited amounts of goods that can leave the country - it all has to go by sea.

You know best - you tell us why it is going to be so bad.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:53 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

We have discussed this endlessly you think there will be queues everywhere because "you are in the business" I disagree because evidence suggests plenty of product from outside of the EU flows seamlessly into the EU so why should that change because the product is either flowing in or out of the UK. Even the bossman at Dover has seen significant changes and doesn't see the same level of disruption as was forecast.

Ireland is an island and as such there are limited amounts of goods that can leave the country - it all has to go by sea.

You know best - you tell us why it is going to be so bad.

Once again Sal, I dont know where to start here.

Ireland, which currently has an open border between the North and the South, allows products and services to move tariff free between the 2 "halves" of the island, would become a smugglers paradise.
On the basis that the North is part of the UK and goods have to be able to move freely between all parts of the same country, what would prevent companies over there importing heaps of goods to eventually find their way into the EU.
If they can move from the UK mainland to the north and then from N. Ireland into Eire tariff free, what will prevent said goods moving from Eire to the EU.
Where do you suggest that the customs checks take place.

On the basis that "everyone" has said that they will honour the "good Friday agreement", which prevents a hard border between the North and South of Ireland, just how will this prevent goods, services and people moving around freely.

You rightly say the Ireland is an island but if there is a free gateway from UK-N.Ireland-Eire-EU and the same in reverse, at which point to you want the physical checks to take place ?

Finally, where on earth would your "limits" come into force ?

To ensure that taxes etc are taken correctly, you would have to ether trade based on "trust" or have some physical controls and if there were tax/tariff benefits in either direction, there will be plenty of people / businesses ready to exploit any "loopholes"