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Re: Referees
Post Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:07 am
Posted by Trainman on Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:07 am
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bewareshadows wrote:
It's simple players have no reason to instigate the ref in conversation.

A players reply is yes sir or no sir.


This is what I was taught to do as a kid and what we need to go back to. Only the captain has the right to ask why a decision was given but not question it.

I agree that dissent should be penalised into oblivion, if this results in scrappy games in the short term so be it. Coaches should be hit with match day stadium bans if they go too far.

At the same time, interviewers should not ask probing questions they know players/coaches can’t answer. The RFL needs to ensure the channels for coaches to discuss referees ‘behind closed doors’ are adequate and genuine concerns on referees performance actioned.

ATEOTD, players, coaches and fans are all biased when it comes to refs even if we try not to be.
Re: Referees
Post Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:34 am
Posted by reffy on Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:34 am
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On field punishment for dissent should be :-

First offence 10 metres
Second offence 10 minutes
Third offence red card

Punishments to accrued by the team rather than an individual player

Foul and abusive is straight red.
Re: Referees
Post Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:52 am
Posted by Someday on Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:52 am
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reffy wrote:
On field punishment for dissent should be :-

First offence 10 metres
Second offence 10 minutes
Third offence red card

Punishments to accrued by the team rather than an individual player

Foul and abusive is straight red.

Agree but will they do it the RFL are crap at doing anything
Re: Referees
Post Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:19 am
Posted by Mild mannered Janitor on Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:19 am
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Unfortunately its the culture of many sports now to hang the officials out to dry rather than focus on the multiple errors players make per game. Football is the worst offender but with its global, massive audience, it has become the the norm to see officials surrounded and effectively bullied on the field.

With increased technology comes closer scrutiny of decisions. For those soccer fans out there bemoaning the VAR system (which personally I think it no where near as user friendly as the VR in RL) they have effectively go a few decades worth of players abusing referees to thank for it.

As for RL, since I started watching the sport in the early 1980's there has always been a few players prepared to have a chat with the man in the middle. Probably the first example I can recall was Andy Gregory. The difference will be he was mostly likely making light of something that had happened. There were some strong characters who were officials back then and I can imagine gave a fair amount back to these players verbally. With them being mic'ed up now, clearly that cannot happen.

The Captain should bet he only player who can approach the ref. Other than that, a player should only speak to the official when asked to by the official themselves.

For a sport that used to pride itself on the respect shown, we have gone backwards at an alarming rate.

Any fan who blames the referee for a defeat is fooling themselves. Games last 80 minutes and are not based on one decision near the end of the game. If the referee makes a howler in the 79th minute, is that any worse to your own player knocking on close to his own line in the 5th minute? Not in my eyes.

The game as got quicker, but the officiating is years behind. Invest into having two onfield refs for SL games. ATEOTD the in goal touch judges are hardly ever used at all, it not like there would need to be a huge recruitment drive, just some intense training.

Impose bans which deter players for even speaking the referee. A few red cards over a few weeks would soon sort this.
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Re: Referees
Post Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:49 am
Posted by bren2k on Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:49 am
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reffy wrote:
On field punishment for dissent should be :-

First offence 10 metres
Second offence 10 minutes
Third offence red card

Punishments to accrued by the team rather than an individual player

Foul and abusive is straight red.


I wouldn't disagree with any of that - and I'd include touch judges in that, as they seem to cop a fair amount of arm-waving and shouting from players; it should be reported to the ref immediately and count towards the accrual of offences.

It's got way out of hand now - and in my view, so long as players and coaches abuse the officials, it incites fans to do the same. It has to stop.
Re: Referees
Post Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:57 am
Posted by wrencat1873 on Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:57 am
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The thing with tightening up dissent towards officials is how easy it would be to get things back on track.
A simple, short set of guidelines issued to all clubs / coaches and instructions given to the officials on how to enforce them and job done.

The "creep" from players, especially the captains (and former captains) of certain clubs has been appalling, albeit that it has been allowed to happen but, the remedy is so simple.
Warn, move back 10 metres and then sin bin /send off.

I would even include the constant gesturing and "begging" form players.

Yes, the fans will always argue and question decisions, it's part and parcel of watching live sport but, for players and coaches to complain needs stopping.
Of course it's difficult, especially when livelihoods are at stake and there will still be the occasional outburst - Jimmy Lowes after the Wakefield v Bradford MPG being a classic example but, the RFL should definitely act.

Everything that the pro's do, especially when games are televised, will be copied by the players of tomorrow (young kids).
Re: Referees
Post Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:42 am
Posted by bren2k on Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:42 am
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wrencat1873 wrote:
Everything that the pro's do, especially when games are televised, will be copied by the players of tomorrow (young kids).


That's already an entirely next level situation; the abuse that (often junior) refs get at amateur games, from players, coaches and spectators (angry Dads usually) is sickening - sometimes bordering on a safeguarding concern. There were at least 2 junior refs in the YJL, who officiated matches accompanied by their own Dads, for protection as well as transport.
Re: Referees
Post Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:47 am
Posted by Moe syslak on Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:47 am
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bren2k wrote:
That's already an entirely next level situation; the abuse that (often junior) refs get at amateur games, from players, coaches and spectators (angry Dads usually) is sickening - sometimes bordering on a safeguarding concern. There were at least 2 junior refs in the YJL, who officiated matches accompanied by their own Dads, for protection as well as transport.

I saw a multiple grand final winning captain aggressively confronting a young ref after his sons team lost a game. Great example to set!
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Re: Referees
Post Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:51 am
Posted by Pumpetypump on Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:51 am
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bren2k wrote:
That's already an entirely next level situation; the abuse that (often junior) refs get at amateur games, from players, coaches and spectators (angry Dads usually) is sickening - sometimes bordering on a safeguarding concern. There were at least 2 junior refs in the YJL, who officiated matches accompanied by their own Dads, for protection as well as transport.


Again, surely you have to have draconian policies in place whereby the abuse of a young man or woman referee equates to a points deduction on the club. They'd soon start policing it locally if little Tommy's team are on minus 30 due to his beetroot faced dad.
Re: Referees
Post Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:02 am
Posted by bren2k on Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:02 am
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Pumpetypump wrote:
Again, surely you have to have draconian policies in place whereby the abuse of a young man or woman referee equates to a points deduction on the club. They'd soon start policing it locally if little Tommy's team are on minus 30 due to his beetroot faced dad.


When I was involved, the penalties for junior clubs for just about any infringement, were financial; which was a cause of great consternation, as the view was that the JL was funding itself via the collection of fines, so a fair hearing could not be guaranteed.

I agree with you to a point - but for me, each junior club is supposed to have a properly trained SG lead in place, and have its own rules and code of conduct; spectators and players who can't respect the referee should be sidelined by the club, before the league has to take action.

Amateur rugby league is the wild west though - and operates pretty much free from any intervention or involvement by the RFL, either positive or punitive.
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