The prop problem : Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:40 pm  

Simple question - does the club have an issue when it comes to developing, identifying and getting the best out of props?

Development - Sutton, Crosby, Prescott, Mossop, O'Carroll all produced by the club, with only Sutton potentially on the cusp of doing anything of note. Who was the last great prop we produced - possibly Andy Faz, but it would be a stretch to call him a prop? Think about other players we've produced in that time like Tomkins X2, Faz, Gildart, Burgess, Manfredi, HH, Ashton, Williams, Mcilorum etc.

Identifying - Bullock, TT and Clubb all started life at either wing or centre and, whilst I'll give Bullock more time, we do seem to keep going back to the same formula that hasn't produced great results. Chris Hill was missed/not picked up by the scouts and you hear stories about us not moving for Walmsley because of his lack of lateral movement. Add in Taylor who had the heart or a pea / no desire to be the best and you've got a sorry tale of picking the wrong guys.

Performance - Lima, FPN and Pettybourne came over with decent reps and whilst the first two weren't as bad as people make out, they didn't exactly set the league on fire. It's taken a move to the NRL for Sutton to be the player we know he can be too. When was the last time we saw a dominant prop performance? Lima in the CC final (I know I said he didn't rip up any trees) or Coley n the WCC?

People will point to Flower and he's been great, but that's one guy vs more than a handful who haven't been great.

Re: The prop problem : Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:05 pm  

sergeant pepper wrote:

Simple question - does the club have an issue when it comes to developing, identifying and getting the best out of props?

Development - Sutton, Crosby, Prescott, Mossop, O'Carroll all produced by the club, with only Sutton potentially on the cusp of doing anything of note. Who was the last great prop we produced - possibly Andy Faz, but it would be a stretch to call him a prop? Think about other players we've produced in that time like Tomkins X2, Faz, Gildart, Burgess, Manfredi, HH, Ashton, Williams, Mcilorum etc.

Identifying - Bullock, TT and Clubb all started life at either wing or centre and, whilst I'll give Bullock more time, we do seem to keep going back to the same formula that hasn't produced great results. Chris Hill was missed/not picked up by the scouts and you hear stories about us not moving for Walmsley because of his lack of lateral movement. Add in Taylor who had the heart or a pea / no desire to be the best and you've got a sorry tale of picking the wrong guys.

Performance - Lima, FPN and Pettybourne came over with decent reps and whilst the first two weren't as bad as people make out, they didn't exactly set the league on fire. It's taken a move to the NRL for Sutton to be the player we know he can be too. When was the last time we saw a dominant prop performance? Lima in the CC final (I know I said he didn't rip up any trees) or Coley n the WCC?

People will point to Flower and he's been great, but that's one guy vs more than a handful who haven't been great.

I would argue that props don't hit their peak until their late 20s as their bodies have not fully developed enough to play that position well enough. Under a salary cap system you can't keep hold of 3 or 4 players hoping that they make it when they reach 26, 27.

Who was the last genuine 18-22 year old world class prop?

Re: The prop problem : Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:20 pm  

Egg Chasing wrote:

I would argue that props don't hit their peak until their late 20s as their bodies have not fully developed enough to play that position well enough. Under a salary cap system you can't keep hold of 3 or 4 players hoping that they make it when they reach 26, 27.

Who was the last genuine 18-22 year old world class prop?

Going back a bit but Lee Crooks was quality at an early age.

Re: The prop problem : Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:22 pm  

Egg Chasing wrote:

I would argue that props don't hit their peak until their late 20s as their bodies have not fully developed enough to play that position well enough. Under a salary cap system you can't keep hold of 3 or 4 players hoping that they make it when they reach 26, 27.

Who was the last genuine 18-22 year old world class prop?

JAMES GRAHAM Was 18 when he made his breakthrough into the Saints team in 2003

Re: The prop problem : Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:33 pm  

Jimmy Hornbys Tash wrote:

JAMES GRAHAM Was 18 when he made his breakthrough into the Saints team in 2003

True.

Re: The prop problem : Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:42 pm  

Egg Chasing wrote:

True.

Hes the only one i can think of in the UK

Sam B was a 13 at the bulls was he not?

Re: The prop problem : Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:52 pm  

tugglesf78 wrote:

Hes the only one i can think of in the UK

Sam B was a 13 at the bulls was he not?

Going back quite a bit but, one of the best British props was Brian Case who was also only 18 on debut for Warrington.

[Pemps]

Re: The prop problem : Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:59 pm  

Stuart Fielden
Luke Thompson

Re: The prop problem : Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:11 pm  

Very few are world-class at that age. The Burgess twins are only 27 now, so they must have been decent around 23/24 too.

Re: The prop problem : Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:12 pm  

Egg Chasing wrote:

I would argue that props don't hit their peak until their late 20s as their bodies have not fully developed enough to play that position well enough. Under a salary cap system you can't keep hold of 3 or 4 players hoping that they make it when they reach 26, 27.

Who was the last genuine 18-22 year old world class prop?

Why bother developing props then? Let then move on at 19 and sign them up 6 years later.