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Re: OT | Yorkshire Carnegie
Post Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:23 am
Posted by The Ghost of '99 on Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:23 am
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Gotcha wrote:
No disrespect, but let’s be honest, it’s pointless explaining anything to you. The club would need to announce it first.

No please, go on. Tell us what it is you think you know about the ownership and management structures of YC. Because based on what you posted above, it's wrong.
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Re: OT | Yorkshire Carnegie
Post Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:09 am
Posted by loinertillidie on Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:09 am
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My understanding is that Hetherington got spooked by the figures. When Leeds Tykes were in the Premiership and looking to cement their stature as a club, it was explained to both Caddick and Hetherington that for the money that they were paying their International RL players they wouldn't get anyone good enough to compete in the Premiership. If they wanted to compete they had to pay the cash.

Caddick got this and was happy to go go for it, Hetherington flat refused to pay middle of the road Union players twice what World Class League players were on.
For me allowing Hetherington to have his way killed Carnegie as a club. It takes time, had Caddick persisted the Union side would be a serious brand. As it is it is failing.
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Re: OT | Yorkshire Carnegie
Post Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:34 am
Posted by Sal Paradise on Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:34 am
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loinertillidie wrote:
My understanding is that Hetherington got spooked by the figures. When Leeds Tykes were in the Premiership and looking to cement their stature as a club, it was explained to both Caddick and Hetherington that for the money that they were paying their International RL players they wouldn't get anyone good enough to compete in the Premiership. If they wanted to compete they had to pay the cash.

Caddick got this and was happy to go go for it, Hetherington flat refused to pay middle of the road Union players twice what World Class League players were on.
For me allowing Hetherington to have his way killed Carnegie as a club. It takes time, had Caddick persisted the Union side would be a serious brand. As it is it is failing.


The problem was there didn't seem to be an apetite for PL RU in Leeds and Hetherington was probably correct in identifying its unsustainability with a big squad on big money. It seems all top RU clubs need benefactors with very deep pockets. Its one thing understanding the need quite another feeding that need with your own money.
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Re: OT | Yorkshire Carnegie
Post Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:34 am
Posted by Gotcha on Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:34 am
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loinertillidie wrote:
My understanding is that Hetherington got spooked by the figures. When Leeds Tykes were in the Premiership and looking to cement their stature as a club, it was explained to both Caddick and Hetherington that for the money that they were paying their International RL players they wouldn't get anyone good enough to compete in the Premiership. If they wanted to compete they had to pay the cash.

Caddick got this and was happy to go go for it, Hetherington flat refused to pay middle of the road Union players twice what World Class League players were on.
For me allowing Hetherington to have his way killed Carnegie as a club. It takes time, had Caddick persisted the Union side would be a serious brand. As it is it is failing.


And Caddick came out of it as a result, as he wasn't prepared to continue the way Hetherington wanted it. As you said, knew exactly what would happen.
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Re: OT | Yorkshire Carnegie
Post Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:15 pm
Posted by loinertillidie on Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:15 pm
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Sal Paradise wrote:
The problem was there didn't seem to be an apetite for PL RU in Leeds and Hetherington was probably correct in identifying its unsustainability with a big squad on big money. It seems all top RU clubs need benefactors with very deep pockets. Its one thing understanding the need quite another feeding that need with your own money.


If we take Leicester Tigers in about 1999 they were getting 1700 odd fans, by 2009 that figure was 17000 and recently they had a gate of 27000. A twenty year business plan is not unusual.

The success of the 2004 to 2014 Rhinos with adequate development would (IMHO) have translated the massive interest in West Yorkshire amateur Rugby Union into interest in a pro club. But as it happened Caddick admitted that owning a Union club was a hobby.

I'm sad because there are now no realistic pathways for the many hundreds of lads who play amateur Union to make a living from the game in West Yorkshire.
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Re: OT | Yorkshire Carnegie
Post Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:09 pm
Posted by The Ghost of '99 on Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:09 pm
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loinertillidie wrote:
If we take Leicester Tigers in about 1999 they were getting 1700 odd fans,
That's not right - throughout the 1990s Leeds, Wigan and Leicester were all broadly similarly supported and who was the best supported 'rugby' club was a matter of some conjecture.
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Re: OT | Yorkshire Carnegie
Post Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:35 pm
Posted by Him on Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:35 pm
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The Ghost of '99 wrote:
That's not right - throughout the 1990s Leeds, Wigan and Leicester were all broadly similarly supported and who was the best supported 'rugby' club was a matter of some conjecture.

In the 98/99 season Leicester had an average crowd of just over 12,000.

Leeds was just under 14,000.
Wigan’s was 9,500.
Re: OT | Yorkshire Carnegie
Post Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:22 am
Posted by BrisbaneRhino on Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:22 am
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The point is Leicester were never one of the 'one man and his dog' RU teams like some were. They've pulled big crowds as long as I can remember. Some of the others, particularly the London clubs (Sale as well I'd guess) were more of that ilk.
Re: OT | Yorkshire Carnegie
Post Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:04 pm
Posted by The Ghost of '99 on Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:04 pm
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BrisbaneRhino wrote:
The point is Leicester were never one of the 'one man and his dog' RU teams like some were. They've pulled big crowds as long as I can remember. Some of the others, particularly the London clubs (Sale as well I'd guess) were more of that ilk.

Correct, they came and went (at the RL clubs at least, I don't know how much Leicester's crowds varied other than that they were similar). In the early '90s Wigan were larger than Leeds.
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Re: OT | Yorkshire Carnegie
Post Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:50 pm
Posted by flipper on Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:50 pm
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