Re: Bottlers : Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:59 am  

runningman29 wrote:

Oh I agree it’s a miracle we’ve got to two finals with that cack half back pairing but I still say losing six finals says final bottlers to me.Think we should invest in a psychologist as clearly they just freeze on the big day.

Don't think we froze. But like every other team in the League and like every other set of half backs we found the Wigan defence just too good. Their end of season defence has been totally remarkable. They've had so few tries scored against them. Very difficult to create anything against them.
Our defence is better than last year but it's not up to Wigan standard yet.

Re: Bottlers : Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:01 am  

There's no creativity at half back, end of. Our pack was good enough even though it carried an unfit BMM, our defence on the day was good enough.

Great season on the back of last year and the poor start we had, culminating in two final appearances. There were two better teams than Warrington in SL this year that didn't reach a final.

I don't think we bottled it, just didn't have the nous to do the job in hand.

Re: Bottlers : Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:09 am  

We don't have a bad team of players. We need a good half-back partnership & that should be sorted by next year (when Brown goes)
I would change the captain next year from Chris Hill to Jason Clark. We need Sitaleki Akauola to step up a gear or get another prop.

Re: Bottlers : Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:12 am  

Hill has to be replaced as captain.

Re: Bottlers : Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:43 am  

We're not bottlers, we just don't have the key to unlock defences.

If Austin lives up to his NRL form then that's still not enough - get that 2nd marquee signing and buy Drinkwater. Those 2 together could be another Nat Wood & Lee Briers.

As for next season's captain......Mike Cooper.

Re: Bottlers : Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:35 am  

You dont get to 2 finals and compete and run both teams close in both if your bottlers.

Re: Bottlers : Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:14 pm  

Yes as long odds underdogs we cannot accuse the 2018 side of being bottlers. The form book and bookies were correct. By and large Wigan have better playes and are more effective as a team. We can beat the top sides in a one-off situation occasionally but not consistently yet.

Re: Bottlers : Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:29 pm  

runningman29 wrote:

Oh I agree it’s a miracle we’ve got to two finals with that cack half back pairing but I still say losing six finals says final bottlers to me.Think we should invest in a psychologist as clearly they just freeze on the big day.

There have been a lot of different players used in those six finals. Ratchford, Hill and Westwood are the consistent links in all of them.

Maybe after the game when Ratchford was being presented with the Harry Sunderland they should have asked him why he freezes in big games.

Also I'm sure I remember the great Les Boyd team bottling it in two Lancashire Cups, a John Player Special and a Premiership final. Could have done with a psychologist back then to help big Les with his nerves on the big occasion.

Re: Bottlers : Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:39 pm  

sally cinnamon wrote:

There have been a lot of different players used in those six finals. Ratchford, Hill and Westwood are the consistent links in all of them.

Maybe after the game when Ratchford was being presented with the Harry Sunderland they should have asked him why he freezes in big games.

Also I'm sure I remember the great Les Boyd team bottling it in two Lancashire Cups, a John Player Special and a Premiership final. Could have done with a psychologist back then to help big Les with his nerves on the big occasion.

Yeah good one. A lot of those finals were against the only full time professional side in the league.

When you play a GF the results are largely 50:50 between the teams as no team can win every final. However the CC final losses are harder to explain away.

Re: Bottlers : Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:17 pm  

Wires71 wrote:

Yeah good one. A lot of those finals were against the only full time professional side in the league.

When you play a GF the results are largely 50:50 between the teams as no team can win every final. However the CC final losses are harder to explain away.

The two CC final losses were both against teams that we were fancied to beat and who had never won a Wembley final before they beat us. Hull in 2016 could have gone either way. Catalans this year was for me the most disappointing of our defeats as it was a game we didn't turn up ready to perform. We didn't "bottle it" on the big stage, we turned up lethargic against a fired up Catalans who had blown Saints away in the first 20 minutes and allowed them to do the same to us. We were then always chasing the game, and due to our limited attacking potential that is not a good position for us.

Your 50:50 theory is interesting because I looked up the stats. Wigan: won 5, lost 5. Saints: won 5, lost 5. Bradford: won 3, lost 3.

The two anomaly clubs are Leeds (won 8, lost 2) and Wire (won 0, lost 4).

It's also sobering to think that Leeds, Wigan and Saints have won 18 out of 21 GFs to date and those 3 from Bradford in a 5 year period (which coincided with Noble being their coach) were the only time the three-club dominance has been broken.

There is also a question about whether the CC and the GF are fundamentally different kinds of trophies to win. Between 2003 and 2012, Leeds were in 5 CC finals, and lost them all, but were in 6 GFs and won them all. Over that same period, Saints were in 4 CC finals and won them all, and were in 5 GFs and lost them all....? At least in the past 3 seasons we've been consistent in CCs and GFs.