Re: Tom Johnstone : Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:51 pm  

ThePrinter wrote:

Thanks for highlighting that I didn’t say I wouldn’t consider him and just reading what you want to read. If any set of fans are dismissive of other wing candidates for England it’s Wakey fans

I think we should try navigate around your BS and cut straight to the chase, lets take "consider" out of the equation and go to "play" or "not play", then there can be no fog knitting and semantic rubbish muddying the waters.
Atm, it looks like not play, the reasons for that are detailed in your typo, but who knows.

Re: Tom Johnstone : Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:55 pm  

ThePrinter wrote:

So you think Hall and McGillivary don’t work at International level and the Aussies have dealt with them easily? Pretty much most agreed our best area in the World Cup were our wingers.

Still ignore what Hall has done consistently for a decade at international level and in GF’s, CCF’s, WCC’s and Semi Finals and has lead to an NRL club signing him even post aged 30......because Johnstone scored a hatrtick against a Catalans team going through the moments post CC Final.

Please see my post above. Proved by stats. Nobody is doubting what Hall has done and he is great winger who’s been good for England.

Re: Tom Johnstone : Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:00 pm  

Upanunder wrote:

I think we should try navigate around your BS and cut straight to the chase, lets take "consider" out of the equation and go to "play" or "not play", then there can be no fog knitting and semantic rubbish muddying the waters.
Atm, it looks like not play, the reasons for that are detailed in your typo, but who knows.

If you want to avoid fog knitting then admit, I didn’t say I wouldn’t consider him. I think he was worth considering end of 2016, 2017 was a write off for injury. 2018 probably worth the other wing spot because of Hall’s absence. If Hall wasn’t injured I’d go with Hall over him simply because he is the proven player.

What is the biggest game Johnstone has played in and excelled?

Re: Tom Johnstone : Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:04 pm  

Trojan Horse wrote:

Please see my post above. Proved by stats. Nobody is doubting what Hall has done and he is great winger who’s been good for England.

Fair play to your previous post which was a very good argument. My reply to the other poster was giving Johnstone the level of respect that that poster gave Hall and McGillivary who he clearly dismissed their international performances.

Re: Tom Johnstone : Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:33 pm  

ThePrinter wrote:

So you think Hall and McGillivary don’t work at International level and the Aussies have dealt with them easily? Pretty much most agreed our best area in the World Cup were our wingers.

Still ignore what Hall has done consistently for a decade at international level and in GF’s, CCF’s, WCC’s and Semi Finals and has lead to an NRL club signing him even post aged 30......because Johnstone scored a hatrtick against a Catalans team going through the moments post CC Final.

This. Johnstone looks flashy with ball in hand and space, like so many others before him (Greg Eden comes to mind!) Maybe people are forgetting that McGillvary was in with a shot of player of the tournament in the last world cup, from a field of only three candidates internationally... and Hall has consistently been class for the last ten years.

When and only when one of these two fall from grace should anyone else be considered. Really, winger is the ONLY position we were world class in at the last tournament and people are trying to line up replacements. Laughable

Re: Tom Johnstone : Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:34 pm  

ThePrinter wrote:

Fair play to your previous post which was a very good argument. My reply to the other poster was giving Johnstone the level of respect that that poster gave Hall and McGillivary who he clearly dismissed their international performances.

I won’t get involved in that one. I can’t see anyone doubting the good job both Hall and macgillivray have done. Undoubtably good players and done a great service for England. Johnstone is part of the next crop coming through and I hope he can achieve as much on the international scene as hall who in sure Tom will both habe respect for and the enthusiasm to continue a strong left wing position should he get the chance.

Thanks for replying btw. Good to have a discussion. It’s what these are for afterall.

Re: Tom Johnstone : Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:54 pm  

Trojan Horse wrote:

I won’t get involved in that one. I can’t see anyone doubting the good job both Hall and macgillivray have done. Undoubtably good players and done a great service for England. Johnstone is part of the next crop coming through and I hope he can achieve as much on the international scene as hall who in sure Tom will both habe respect for and the enthusiasm to continue a strong left wing position should he get the chance.

Thanks for replying btw. Good to have a discussion. It’s what these are for afterall.

I think one of the problems is lack of fixtures in international. You play so few can you really drop proven players for potentially good but unproven players against Oz and NZ in WC and 4N games. Not like football we’re you have so many games to try different players.

If he gets his shot this Autumn then realistically he’s not had to wait that long for an international shot especially factoring in his 2017 injury ruling him out of that year.

Re: Tom Johnstone : Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:55 pm  

JonnoTheGreat wrote:

:lol:

So he wouldn't be furthering his career if he moved to a top club in England? One who actually challenged for, and won, major trophies, something Wakefield don't do?

Absolutely typical though of the total nonsense you get off 'Wakey' fans thesedays.

Why should a player be judged on how many trophies a TEAM wins, or one that has proved he can outperform the other wingers in the Comp playing for a 5th placed team That surely is how an individual is judged not a team. it's not as if he's playing for Widnes at the bottom of the league is it.
Moving from Trinity to Saints or Wigan isn't even necessarily going to make him a better player at all, could have the opposite effect & he may not fit in at either club as we've seen with other players.
Like the point I originally made, which is quite bloody obvious, it's one of the reasons we have guys from England playing there. A move to the NRL and the better coaching and the week in week out standard of the sides would see him against the best and potentially make him a better player. Hard to understand, isn't it.

A typical fruity little anti-Wakey response that doesn't know their a-hole from their elbow.

As far as England selection Hall and McGillvery are the 2 wingers at present and I've no problem with that. Hall, in particular, seems to excel for England even when his Leeds performances haven't. If Hall is out imo Johnstone is the next cab off the rank and ateotd we should be blooding the next generation in at some point whether that's Johnstone or not

Re: Tom Johnstone : Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:06 pm  

Shifty Cat wrote:

:LOL:
Why should a player be judged on how many trophies a TEAM wins

Because playing in the biggest games like GF’s and CCF’s and SF’s are massive experiences that shouldn’t be dismissed when you’re facing the likes of Australia and New Zealand.

Re: Tom Johnstone : Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:15 pm  

ThePrinter wrote:

Because playing in the biggest games like GF’s and CCF’s and SF’s are massive experiences that shouldn’t be dismissed when you’re facing the likes of Australia and New Zealand.

But the point is it's not the be all and end all, otherwise, we'd have players from just 4/5 clubs playing from SL for England at any one time. Obviously, it would be good to see him in a GF but conversely, players sometimes get picked just for that, because they play in a winning SL team and the team can make them look good. Not necessarily because they're the best player in England in that position.

Seriously I'm not sure why people are getting bent out of shape on this. If you watch the lad play, you can see how good he is and especially how much his defense has improved since he burst onto the scene. He doesn't have to be in the Grand final to show that, does he. It's also not as if Trinity hasn't been playing near the top of the table the past couple of years in good close games against the top teams at the time.
Do you see him not performing say if Trinity makes the top 4, like they were so close to last year, and get a Semifinal or dare I say it a Final because I don't? He tends to excel against the better teams rather than disappear.

ATEOTD I'm not calling for any changes, just acknowledging like yourself the lad has a very good chance if fit.