Re: RD 21 | Leeds Rhinos v Wakefield Trinity : Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:30 pm  

The Magic Rat wrote:

Our game management late on, in the close games, this season has been very poor. Myler has to take some responsibility for this imo. Hindsight is easy but would we have turned some of those into wins with McGuire still at halfback ?

If McGuire was still our halfback we would be looking to the top 4 not the bottom 4.

Re: RD 21 | Leeds Rhinos v Wakefield Trinity : Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:35 pm  

The Magic Rat wrote:

Our game management late on, in the close games, this season has been very poor. Myler has to take some responsibility for this imo. Hindsight is easy but would we have turned some of those into wins with McGuire still at halfback ?

Possibly but I think it’s more than just game management. I think it’s a confidence issue in that we look nervous when it comes to the closing stages of a tight game, like we don’t think we can hold out. And I think we get sloppy/lazy/tired/overrun however you want to describe it down the middle. Aside from what we do with the ball in these circumstances, in defence teams make far too many yards down the middle against us. We aren’t getting up to them and we aren’t slowing the play the ball by getting bodies into the tackle.
Some people are blaming the conditioning team etc and that we’re unfit, I doubt that personally as the conditioning has prettt much delivered every season. I think it’s more a consequence of us having to expend too much energy in other parts of the game so we’re knackered.

Re: RD 21 | Leeds Rhinos v Wakefield Trinity : Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:50 pm  

Him wrote:

Possibly but I think it’s more than just game management. I think it’s a confidence issue in that we look nervous when it comes to the closing stages of a tight game, like we don’t think we can hold out. And I think we get sloppy/lazy/tired/overrun however you want to describe it down the middle. Aside from what we do with the ball in these circumstances, in defence teams make far too many yards down the middle against us. We aren’t getting up to them and we aren’t slowing the play the ball by getting bodies into the tackle.
Some people are blaming the conditioning team etc and that we’re unfit, I doubt that personally as the conditioning has prettt much delivered every season. I think it’s more a consequence of us having to expend too much energy in other parts of the game so we’re knackered.

I agree that it comes down to more than just game management, but I do think McGuire would have got us over the line on a few occasions this season.
Regarding the fitness issues, I agreed with McDermotts views about us struggling to contain teams week after week without our 1st choice props and that was taking its toll. We are now in a rut and confidence is a big problem. There were encouraging signs on Friday night though. Line speed was much improved which in turned helped contain their pack better than has been the case recently.

Re: RD 21 | Leeds Rhinos v Wakefield Trinity : Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:25 am  

tad rhino wrote:

handleys not a strike centre for me. average at best

He’s below average for me

Re: RD 21 | Leeds Rhinos v Wakefield Trinity : Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:24 am  

This present rhinos team/squad is distinctively average, it also contains certain players who are below average. My question is how have we arrived at this situation. The main obvious point would be ,did Brian Mac assure GH that the squad was good enough. Or it might be the case that GH said sorry Brian no funds available make do with what you have. Our two star half backs finished last season,so instead of replacing like for like we signed myler and moved moon to stand off. Thus the team was weakened from day one. I realise that we have discussed this at length previously but it’s relevant to the mess sinfield has inherited. Noting that in one interview he said this problem won’t be fixed overnight. My guess would be at least three seasons.

Re: RD 21 | Leeds Rhinos v Wakefield Trinity : Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:51 am  

Backwoodsman wrote:

Our two star half backs finished last season,so instead of replacing like for like we signed myler and moved moon to stand off. Thus the team was weakened from day one. I realise that we have discussed this at length previously but it’s relevant to the mess sinfield has inherited. Noting that in one interview he said this problem won’t be fixed overnight. My guess would be at least three seasons.

Moon already playing stand-off last season. Who is the other star half-back you refer to - Burrow? He was an interchange hooker who was replaced by Dwyer (who in turn has barely played this season).

Re: RD 21 | Leeds Rhinos v Wakefield Trinity : Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:10 pm  

Gotcha wrote:

Thought Jack was pretty poor last night to be honest. However, how anyone with half a brain cell can see Golding as the same level is just ridiculous. Golding is absolutely nowhere near as good defensively, forget attack, defensively. He is constantly caught out position wise, and constantly having the team dropping out. We don’t have that same issue with Walker, even though he wasn’t up to usual last night.

I thought Golding had been making a damn good job of impact hooker previously, but last night the side really suffered with his Introduction, although I thought the lad gave good enthusiasm.

I am not questioning Walkers abilities and he certainly looks like a future star, however he is currently not as physically strong in defense as Golding and makes far fewer tackles per game as he is often not in the right place to make those tackles. I agree he looks better on attack than Golding but in practice is not consistently fulfilling that attacking promise. As I said in 16 games this season he has only made 4 clean brakes as opponents have worked him out. And in 16 games he has scored just 1 try with just 1 try assist and his average metres per carry is below that of Golding who has made more tackle busts and less errors. So as a fullback it is just not true that Walker is the better defender or indeed attacker than Golding.

Walker made a total hash of defending Wakefield's first try and at the very least should have tackled the ball carrier and for a specialist fullback this was a bad basic error. He also was no where near the correct position to cover the kick through when Moon slipped for a crucial try against us. In a game where Leeds made 427 tackles Walker only made 2 tackles with 2 missed tackles and 3 handling errors

Now I want to repeat my previous opinion that I really rate Walker and want him in the side but I also fully accept that Walker is very young and has loads of development to come. But I think he is currently suffering from having to run too often into heavy traffic from kick chasers resulting in several injuries and this has dulled his edge. Hence I would like to see him at 6 for a few games at least as I believe he could be a revelation and with Moon playing so badly we have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

I agree with you that Golding has made "a dam good job of impact hooker previously" but I think you are drawing the wrong conclusion from your negative comment about his impact this time. When Golding replaced Dwyer, Singleton was also replaced by Oledzki at the same time who was turned out to be pretty ineffective and a few minutes later Cutherbertson also went off. Around this time Wakefield were able to introduce some real impact from their bench.

Golding was on the field for around 30 minutes and in that time made 30 tackles, 5 dummy runs and 6 carries with no errors and when he left the field we were still in the lead. So a lack of performance from his colleagues cannot be blamed on Golding. For the same reason when Dwyer returned he should not be blamed for us then losing our lead in his second stint, although it should be noted he gave possession and field position away with a speculative failed drop goal attempt when we should have kicked for position.

I think Dwyer had his best game for Leeds but would not have made 69 tackles had he stayed on for the full 80 which is the total of Dwyer and Golding combined (Dwyer 39 tackles and 4 missed tackles and 1 errors in 50 minutes Golding 30 tackles and 1 miss and zero errors in 30 minutes)

I would like both Walker and Golding to feature in the Leeds 17 for many years to come.

Re: RD 21 | Leeds Rhinos v Wakefield Trinity : Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:14 pm  

Him wrote:

Possibly but I think it’s more than just game management. I think it’s a confidence issue in that we look nervous when it comes to the closing stages of a tight game, like we don’t think we can hold out. And I think we get sloppy/lazy/tired/overrun however you want to describe it down the middle. Aside from what we do with the ball in these circumstances, in defence teams make far too many yards down the middle against us. We aren’t getting up to them and we aren’t slowing the play the ball by getting bodies into the tackle.
Some people are blaming the conditioning team etc and that we’re unfit, I doubt that personally as the conditioning has prettt much delivered every season. I think it’s more a consequence of us having to expend too much energy in other parts of the game so we’re knackered.

For the last 7 losses we have been without JJB our best defender. Not a coincidence.

Re: RD 21 | Leeds Rhinos v Wakefield Trinity : Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:48 pm  

clutching at straws Juan.
nowhere near our best and don't quote stats. stats don't show the number of times he's caught going back as he's to slow. or the gaps he leaves. his legs have gone.
I love him and we have missed his influence but best defender??? not even close

Re: RD 21 | Leeds Rhinos v Wakefield Trinity : Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:25 pm  

tad rhino wrote:

handleys not a strike centre for me. average at best

Having been a long term critic of Handley's defence (and still am) I have to take issue with you regrading his attacking performances this season as a stand in centre. In my opinion he has greatly improved and has out performed Watkins and of course Sutcliffe on attack.

I know you do not like stats because they are facts you cannot dispute so you will enjoy having to agree that Handley is our top try scorer and is equal 2nd best for try assists and our 3rd best both for clean breaks and for tackle busts These are all better averages per match than Watkins and he also has a better metre per carry average than Watkins.

Now while this does not make him Mal Meniga it does make him better than average as an attacking centre. However what does let him down badly is his defense.