RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
23 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!
WWW.RLFANS.COM • View topic - Reserve grade threaD
Re: Reserve grade threaD Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:20 pm  
Re: Reserve grade threaD
Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:20 pm  

User avatarComeOnYouUll wrote:
ComeOnYouUll User avatar
Gold RLFANS Member
Gold RLFANS Member

Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2003 11:48 am
Posts: 20319
Member for 19 years
Irregs#16 wrote:
Not many sides play at their home stadium. The youngsters play at the base for our new training facility. Makes sense to me


Plus it's an extra motivation for them - playing at the MKM Stadium for the first team.
Re: Reserve grade threaD Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:13 pm  
Re: Reserve grade threaD
Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:13 pm  

User avatarMild Rover wrote:
Mild Rover User avatar
100% League Network
100% League Network

Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 9:49 am
Posts: 12287
Location: Leicestershire.
Member for 15 years
Riderofthepalehorse wrote:
Don’t think the lesson was ever hidden M.R. In our competition we are split and hampered by the threat of relegation, or the chase for silverware, whichever camp we fall in, all clubs choose quick fixes to strengthen either cause, while youth, the only sustainable way forward was overlooked rather than forgotten.

Let’s hope with the emergence of young talent coming through, indeed we ourselves are loaning some of these starlets, the penny has finally dropped, and this overhyped madness of bringing no longer hungry, or physically able ex NRL players is long gone.

Personally this Sky overrated jeopardy regarding the demise of Wakey or Toulouse in a fabulous battle at the bottom, with the added spice of dragging Warrington in, is absolute nonsense, the quality is poor, we need to freshen it all up.


Doesn’t the fact that Cas used to get loads of praise for bringing through players (Westerman, Shenton, Richard Owen, Joe Arundel and the like) while fighting relegation and generally being cack, but then improved significantly without much input from young academy products suggest that there isn’t just only one sustainable way forward? Opening with a passive-aggressive rhetorical question… might have to change my username at this rate.

A productive academy is obviously better than an unproductive academy. But I really don’t get why it being seen as such a key differentiator is so ingrained in the RL psyche. I don’t think the evidence remotely supports it (unless you go cherrypicking), so it seems like an emotional thing of people wanting it to be true or just one of those ‘conventional wisdom’ things.

At least if you fail in a conventional way there’s no criticism and if you lose games, year after year, while trying to do things ‘the right way’, your eulogies will be full of patronising praise. I wonder which period Cas fans preferred and which was better for long-term sustainability of their club.

The chase for silverware and the threat of relegation and generally trying to win aren’t distractions. They’re meant to be the whole point. Developing players is meant to be just a means to that end, not the main goal in itself.

Ahhhhhh, Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh! :lol:
'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.
Re: Reserve grade threaD Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:53 pm  
Re: Reserve grade threaD
Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:53 pm  
Riderofthepalehorse User avatar
Silver RLFANS Member
Silver RLFANS Member

Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:43 am
Posts: 6452
Location: Kingston upon Hull
Member for 5 years
Mild Rover wrote:
Doesn’t the fact that Cas used to get loads of praise for bringing through players (Westerman, Shenton, Richard Owen, Joe Arundel and the like) while fighting relegation and generally being cack, but then improved significantly without much input from young academy products suggest that there isn’t just only one sustainable way forward? Opening with a passive-aggressive rhetorical question… might have to change my username at this rate.

A productive academy is obviously better than an unproductive academy. But I really don’t get why it being seen as such a key differentiator is so ingrained in the RL psyche. I don’t think the evidence remotely supports it (unless you go cherrypicking), so it seems like an emotional thing of people wanting it to be true or just one of those ‘conventional wisdom’ things.

At least if you fail in a conventional way there’s no criticism and if you lose games, year after year, while trying to do things ‘the right way’, your eulogies will be full of patronising praise. I wonder which period Cas fans preferred and which was better for long-term sustainability of their club.

The chase for silverware and the threat of relegation and generally trying to win aren’t distractions. They’re meant to be the whole point. Developing players is meant to be just a means to that end, not the main goal in itself.

Ahhhhhh, Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh! :lol:


I think Cas fans will remember 1986 when they lifted the cup as one of their most memorable moments, surely that team was an array of Cas and Wakey lads, apart from Dave Plange who I believe without checking was from Hull :D But I do take your point, without analysis, the best times are probably when our teams were brimming with overseas, or home bought talent, but nevertheless, investment in youth is the way forward.
Re: Reserve grade threaD Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:52 pm  
Re: Reserve grade threaD
Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:52 pm  

User avatarMild Rover wrote:
Mild Rover User avatar
100% League Network
100% League Network

Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 9:49 am
Posts: 12287
Location: Leicestershire.
Member for 15 years
Riderofthepalehorse wrote:
but nevertheless, investment in youth is the way forward.


Why do you feel so sure it is the way forward?

There’s less value in the NRL market than 10 years ago, for sure. Cherrypicked exceptions like SKD, aside.

But there are multiple ways to mitigate that. Championship players entering their prime, SL veterans with maybe 1 or 2 decent years left, a squad player at another club who in a different position and/or environment could bloom, Fijians in the Army. And, yes, bringing through academy players.

Golden generations stick in the memory but are rare and unpredictable. You can rarely rely on your academy as a major source of first team talent, in the modern era. People will point to St Helens, but I don’t think their circumstances are broadly applicable. If you look at their first GF-winning team, Cunningham is at 9 and Wellens on the bench - but it is clear they had initially to buy their place at the top table. Money is the one way… is that too sad a truth to say loudly?

The other problem is that the current pathway is club- not player-orientated but isn’t even very effective on those terms. Clubs’ desperate (if understandable) desire to own talent likely prevents it from developing in many cases. Let kids come up through the community game (investing there), to league 1, then the Championship and then SL… wherever they find their level. The big SL clubs harvesting 15 year olds then sieving them out over the next 4 years to choose a couple to send for a few games at Rochdale or Dewsbury as prep for a debut in an injury-ravaged SL team… I wonder why that doesn’t work very often! I wonder more why people think it should.
'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.
Re: Reserve grade threaD Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:12 pm  
Re: Reserve grade threaD
Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:12 pm  

User avatarHasbag wrote:
Hasbag User avatar
Bronze RLFANS Member
Bronze RLFANS Member

Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:52 pm
Posts: 3684
Location: Hull
Member for 11 years
Beat Bradford 38-12 tonight
Re: Reserve grade threaD Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:50 pm  
Re: Reserve grade threaD
Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:50 pm  

User avatarArmavinit wrote:
Armavinit User avatar
Free-scoring winger
Free-scoring winger

Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 7:40 pm
Posts: 1807
Member for 11 years
Mild Rover wrote:
Why do you feel so sure it is the way forward?

There’s less value in the NRL market than 10 years ago, for sure. Cherrypicked exceptions like SKD, aside.

But there are multiple ways to mitigate that. Championship players entering their prime, SL veterans with maybe 1 or 2 decent years left, a squad player at another club who in a different position and/or environment could bloom, Fijians in the Army. And, yes, bringing through academy players.

Golden generations stick in the memory but are rare and unpredictable. You can rarely rely on your academy as a major source of first team talent, in the modern era. People will point to St Helens, but I don’t think their circumstances are broadly applicable. If you look at their first GF-winning team, Cunningham is at 9 and Wellens on the bench - but it is clear they had initially to buy their place at the top table. Money is the one way… is that too sad a truth to say loudly?

The other problem is that the current pathway is club- not player-orientated but isn’t even very effective on those terms. Clubs’ desperate (if understandable) desire to own talent likely prevents it from developing in many cases. Let kids come up through the community game (investing there), to league 1, then the Championship and then SL… wherever they find their level. The big SL clubs harvesting 15 year olds then sieving them out over the next 4 years to choose a couple to send for a few games at Rochdale or Dewsbury as prep for a debut in an injury-ravaged SL team… I wonder why that doesn’t work very often! I wonder more why people think it should.



But your not used to having a harvest of locally grown players, you ripped off half of your team from Bradford.
The way forward is to produce your own players, something that Adam under Hodgson’s guidance will bear fruition. Hudgell tried to grab onto Pearsons’s coat tails with the much vaunted combined junior team but because he didn’t put his money where his mouth is, it failed. Sometimes I read your long winded posts and think there is substance then the trance ends and I realise your just wind and pish. Just stay on your own forum, I’m sure they’ll be more interested.
No need, anyone is welcome here if they post within the AUP which just recently, you aren't. Karen.
Re: Reserve grade threaD Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:57 pm  
Re: Reserve grade threaD
Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:57 pm  

User avatarMild Rover wrote:
Mild Rover User avatar
100% League Network
100% League Network

Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 9:49 am
Posts: 12287
Location: Leicestershire.
Member for 15 years
So, in brief, it is a faith-based position. Those are fine in certain contexts, but imo this isn’t one of them… or maybe from a fan perspective it is, and I should nourish my feeling side and stand down my thinking side. It’s just that feeling can really hurt and thinking can help avoid the pain.

Or it’s a circular argument… it is the way forward so it will bear fruit and because it will bear fruit it is the way forward. Just one of those things that ‘stands to reason’.

Rovers rode the being patient, building-slowly-from-the-bottom wagon very quickly off a cliff into the Championship. More than any club in SL we paid the price of believing the righteous, one-size-fits-all, long-termist fairytales peddled by the rich Goliath clubs and their supporters, so please don’t give me the money and mouth line. If something hasn’t worked well for us, it is reasonable to wonder if something else might be better, rather than going all in on the same thing again.

I am full of wind and pish, that is true - but I’ve got a decent eye for it too.

I’m also being boring, so I’ll let it lie for a bit. Byeeee.
'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.
Re: Reserve grade threaD Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:18 am  
Re: Reserve grade threaD
Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:18 am  
Irregular Hoops User avatar
Bronze RLFANS Member


Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2002 1:30 pm
Posts: 4190
Location: Kingston upon Hull F.C.
Member for 20 years
TLDR
Re: Reserve grade threaD Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:46 pm  
Re: Reserve grade threaD
Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:46 pm  

User avatarBoss Hog wrote:
Boss Hog User avatar
Silver RLFANS Member
Silver RLFANS Member

Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:34 pm
Posts: 7717
Member for 10 years
The Academy team lost 28pts to 10 pts, at an away fixture at Warrington this afternoon.
Re: Reserve grade threaD Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:33 pm  
Re: Reserve grade threaD
Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:33 pm  

User avatarMrs Barista wrote:
Mrs Barista User avatar
Gold RLFANS Member
Gold RLFANS Member

Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 11:28 am
Posts: 29222
Location: West Yorkshire
Member for 17 years
Shame that, season started well.
PreviousNext

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Dave K., davey41, fosdyke99, GrahamBray, Greavsie, McFc, mwindass, oooh Gravy!, supersport, Woods1969, Yippee try yay and 225 guests

REPLY

Subject: 
Message:
   
Please note using apple style emoji's can result in posting failures.
Use the FULL EDITOR to better format content or upload images, be notified of replies etc...

Return to Hull FC


RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
59s
Full circle
Wildcatnomor
3
5m
French domestic league season 2022/2023 thread
Jimmythecuck
11
10m
Corey Hallsigns till 2024
Wildcatnomor
42
17m
2022 RL World Cup
Trebor1
33
18m
England Squad 2022 - Why are we falling further behind
The Ghost of
7
19m
IMG Podcast
The Ghost of
66
22m
How long in 2023 does Powell have
easyWire
186
26m
Overseas players Ex Martin so we need them
Trebor1
19
34m
Season debrief send in your questions
easyWire
38
34m
Spending the full salary cap
lampyboy
6
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
32s
IMG Podcast
The Ghost of
66
32s
How long in 2023 does Powell have
easyWire
186
34s
England Squad 2022 - Why are we falling further behind
The Ghost of
7
36s
2022 RL World Cup
Trebor1
33
39s
Overseas players Ex Martin so we need them
Trebor1
19
43s
Corey Hallsigns till 2024
Wildcatnomor
42
44s
Spending the full salary cap
lampyboy
6
54s
Season debrief send in your questions
easyWire
38
1m
SL GF St Helens Old Trafford
bewareshadow
694
1m
The New PM is Lis Truss
The Avenger
26
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Full circle
Wildcatnomor
3
TODAY
Random Act Of Kindness Time
Lower Crease
2
TODAY
England Squad 2022 - Why are we falling further behind
The Ghost of
7
TODAY
Spending the full salary cap
lampyboy
6
TODAY
Oh no its Kendall
Leyther in n
6
TODAY
Touch rugby
Jimmythecuck
1
TODAY
NO RELEGATION
MattyB
14
TODAY
Rugby League in good hands
Egg Chasing
3
TODAY
The times they are a changing
Mild Rover
21
TODAY
The way ahead
jbuzza
13
Random Topics selected.
POSTSONLINEMEMBERSRECORD
19.38Million +11,596 ↑5579,2499,323
LOGIN HERE
or REGISTER for more features!.

When you register you get access to the live match scores, live match chat and you can post in the discussions on the forums.
RLFANS Match Centre

TABLES:
There are currently no matches to display.
Matches on TV
Sun 2nd Oct
NRL RND: 29
09:30
Penrith-Parramatta
L1 RND: 26
14:00
Swinton-Doncaster
CH RND: 30
18:30
Leigh-Batley
Sat 15th Oct
WC2022 RND: 1
14:30
England-Samoa
WC2022 RND: 1
19:30
Australia-Fiji
Sun 16th Oct
WC2022 RND: 1
17:00
Jamaica-Ireland
WC2022 RND: 1
19:30
New Zealand-Lebanon
WC2022 RND: 1
14:30
Scotland-Italy
Mon 17th Oct
WC2022 RND: 1
19:30
France-Greece
Tue 18th Oct
WC2022 RND: 1
19:30
Tonga-Papua NG
Wed 19th Oct
WC2022 RND: 1
19:30
WALES-Cook Islands
Fri 21st Oct
WC2022 RND: 2
19:30
Australia-Scotland
Sat 22nd Oct
WC2022 RND: 2
14:30
Fiji-Italy
WC2022 RND: 2
17:00
England-France
WC2022 RND: 2
19:30
New Zealand-Jamaica
Sun 23rd Oct
WC2022 RND: 2
14:30
Lebanon-Ireland
WC2022 RND: 2
17:00
France-Greece
Mon 24th Oct
WC2022 RND: 2
19:30
Tonga-WALES
Tue 25th Oct
WC2022 RND: 2
19:30
Papua NG-Cook Islands
Fri 28th Oct
WC2022 RND: 3
19:30
New Zealand-Ireland
Sun 25th Sep
L1 RND: 25 Doncaster52-20Rochdale
CH RND: 29 Leigh70-10York
CH RND: 29 Featherstone28-32Batley
Sat 24th Sep
NRL RND: 28 Penrith32-12Souths
SL RND: 30 Leeds12-24St.Helens
Fri 23rd Sep
NRL RND: 28 NQL Cowboys20-24Parramatta
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
Betfred Championship 2022 ROUND : 27
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Leigh 27 1306 208 1098 52
Featherstone 27 1058 468 590 47
Halifax 27 837 440 397 40
Barrow 27 759 587 172 37
Batley 27 738 551 187 36
York 27 677 596 81 36
 
Sheffield 27 699 660 39 24
Widnes 27 567 679 -112 24
Bradford 27 521 675 -154 22
Whitehaven 27 488 854 -366 19
LondonB 27 548 740 -192 17
Newcastle 27 559 877 -318 15
Dewsbury 27 385 964 -579 7
Workington 27 296 1139 -843 2
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
Betfred League One 2022 ROUND : 20
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Keighley 18 843 154 689 36
Crusaders 18 668 332 336 30
Swinton 18 737 281 456 28
Doncaster 18 618 392 226 26
Rochdale 18 646 451 195 24
Hunslet 18 475 462 13 17
 
Oldham 18 535 473 62 15
Midlands 18 458 632 -174 10
LondonS 18 362 705 -343 10
Cornwall 19 274 782 -508 2
West Wales 19 154 1106 -952 2
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
Betfred Super League XXVII ROUND : 27
 PLDFADIFFPTS
St.Helens 27 674 374 300 42
Wigan 27 818 483 335 38
Huddersfield 27 613 497 116 35
Catalans 27 539 513 26 32
Leeds 27 577 528 49 29
Salford 27 700 602 98 28
 
Castleford 27 544 620 -76 26
Hull KR 27 498 608 -110 24
Hull FC 27 508 675 -167 22
Wakefield 27 497 648 -151 20
Warrington 27 568 664 -96 18
Toulouse 27 421 745 -324 10
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
National Rugby League 2022 ROUND : 24
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Penrith 23 628 353 275 38
Cronulla 23 535 348 187 34
Melbourne 23 704 388 316 32
NQL Cowboys 23 595 353 242 32
Parramatta 23 586 475 111 30
Sydney 23 611 416 195 28
Souths 23 588 448 140 28
Canberra 23 468 451 17 26
 
Brisbane 23 502 528 -26 26
St.George 23 445 559 -114 22
Manly 23 470 574 -104 18
Canterbury 23 362 555 -193 12
Newcastle 23 356 624 -268 12
NZ Warriors 23 382 673 -291 12
Gold Coast 23 428 634 -206 10
Wests 23 342 623 -281 8
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
59s
Full circle
Wildcatnomor
3
5m
French domestic league season 2022/2023 thread
Jimmythecuck
11
10m
Corey Hallsigns till 2024
Wildcatnomor
42
17m
2022 RL World Cup
Trebor1
33
18m
England Squad 2022 - Why are we falling further behind
The Ghost of
7
19m
IMG Podcast
The Ghost of
66
22m
How long in 2023 does Powell have
easyWire
186
26m
Overseas players Ex Martin so we need them
Trebor1
19
34m
Season debrief send in your questions
easyWire
38
34m
Spending the full salary cap
lampyboy
6
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
32s
IMG Podcast
The Ghost of
66
32s
How long in 2023 does Powell have
easyWire
186
34s
England Squad 2022 - Why are we falling further behind
The Ghost of
7
36s
2022 RL World Cup
Trebor1
33
39s
Overseas players Ex Martin so we need them
Trebor1
19
43s
Corey Hallsigns till 2024
Wildcatnomor
42
44s
Spending the full salary cap
lampyboy
6
54s
Season debrief send in your questions
easyWire
38
1m
SL GF St Helens Old Trafford
bewareshadow
694
1m
The New PM is Lis Truss
The Avenger
26
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Full circle
Wildcatnomor
3
TODAY
Random Act Of Kindness Time
Lower Crease
2
TODAY
England Squad 2022 - Why are we falling further behind
The Ghost of
7
TODAY
Spending the full salary cap
lampyboy
6
TODAY
Oh no its Kendall
Leyther in n
6
TODAY
Touch rugby
Jimmythecuck
1
TODAY
NO RELEGATION
MattyB
14
TODAY
Rugby League in good hands
Egg Chasing
3
TODAY
The times they are a changing
Mild Rover
21
TODAY
The way ahead
jbuzza
13
Random Topics selected.


Visit the RLFANS.COM SHOP
for more merchandise!