Re: Bradford : Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:30 pm  

Dave K. wrote:

Don't think there is, I think players on the quota don't count though.

Big mistake by Leigh, didn't they know David Hodgson was available?

Disco Dave was quite sprightly this aft!

Re: Bradford : Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:56 pm  

blakeysrobin wrote:

Disco Dave was quite sprightly this aft!

Had a great game!

Re: Bradford : Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:58 pm  

Jake the Peg wrote:

What if o'brien is better than litten? If litten is good enough he'll come through. What if we'd never signed sneyd because he might have blocked the way for dean and tyson wilson? The club has to make decisions based on what they have now. I don't suppose they intended to sign a hooker but have (maybe) take an opportunity to acquire a highly regarded youngster. If we don't sign decent quality players we'd have the same group of people whinging about that too

Then if we are having to sign external youngsters that shows us that the youth system coaches and the progression system is failing.
2012/13 we had 5 youth players come through to cement starting positions either straight away in crooks/Lineham and Shaul with the likes of Hadley/Bowden all making debuts in that time and being regular 1st 17 players.

Since then we've only had JA have a few starts, being overly criticised despite being expected to be top 4SL std when not having played ANY games for weeks and then only at fev AND only 20yrs of age.
Aside from JA's sporadic appearances and now not part of our set-up we've not had a single youth player come through in 3 full seasons, I'd say that was a concern given we've lost the tyson wilsons, Reece dean, Cunningham, Logan & Lancaster way down the pecking order due to signings, Litten a few seasons off by some people on here, Yes, Turgut and some of the other forwards may well get games this season but that 3 year gap/lack of the next wave coming through (& gaining experience) could be very telling. We can't keep signing from outside because it's more costly and it a blow to those youth players that thenm see little chance in getting a decent chance to progress even if they have the potential.

Re: Bradford : Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:11 pm  

O Brien has signed for Huddersfield.

Re: Bradford : Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:40 pm  

knockersbumpMKII wrote:

Then if we are having to sign external youngsters that shows us that the youth system coaches and the progression system is failing.
2012/13 we had 5 youth players come through to cement starting positions either straight away in crooks/Lineham and Shaul with the likes of Hadley/Bowden all making debuts in that time and being regular 1st 17 players.

The system must have been failing then as well because Lineham was a buy in. Truth is youth development doesn't provide a steady drip feed of talent in any case - they come in fits and starts and not smoothly distributed over all positions. There is absolutely nothing wrong with recruiting "external" youngsters. Leeds, Wigan, Saints and Wire all do it - its just the closer geographic distances involved with them make it less obvious at times.

Re: Bradford : Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:41 pm  

knockersbumpMKII wrote:

Then if we are having to sign external youngsters that shows us that the youth system coaches and the progression system is failing.
2012/13 we had 5 youth players come through to cement starting positions either straight away in crooks/Lineham and Shaul with the likes of Hadley/Bowden all making debuts in that time and being regular 1st 17 players.

Since then we've only had JA have a few starts, being overly criticised despite being expected to be top 4SL std when not having played ANY games for weeks and then only at fev AND only 20yrs of age.
Aside from JA's sporadic appearances and now not part of our set-up we've not had a single youth player come through in 3 full seasons, I'd say that was a concern given we've lost the tyson wilsons, Reece dean, Cunningham, Logan & Lancaster way down the pecking order due to signings, Litten a few seasons off by some people on here, Yes, Turgut and some of the other forwards may well get games this season but that 3 year gap/lack of the next wave coming through (& gaining experience) could be very telling. We can't keep signing from outside because it's more costly and it a blow to those youth players that thenm see little chance in getting a decent chance to progress even if they have the potential.

In 2015, plenty of youngsters got a chance/debut due to injuries, and Logan went into the 2016 season as a first choice centre. Abdull has had opportunities too to cement a place.

2016 was a completely different story because we had much stronger squad depth, a very strong first 13 and a relatively injury free year. Could the squad have been rotated more? Yes, probably a little, but it still wouldn't have given much more game time to youngsters.

Wigan are the benchmark of course, but it wasn't them promoting youth which saw a raft of youngsters getting game time last year, it was a lengthy injury list. They still have plenty of players in their squad signed from elsewhere too.


It's the nature of the beast that some youngsters will either not make the grade, or will have someone better in front of them. We weren't going to drop Sneyd to give HTW a run in the side. We weren't going to drop Houghton and give Cunningham a run. Dean, Cunningham & HTW have gone elsewhere for game time, fair play to them.

We can't just throw in 2/3 youngsters into a game and potentially sacrifice the two points. There weren't any easy games last year, each win we had to fight for. I don't blame Radford for playing his strongest 17 at all. What exactly are you proposing Radford does? Genuine question, would you for instance drop Washy and play Turgut in for a month? Drop Fonua and play Logan for a few weeks?

Re: Bradford : Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:51 pm  

Erik the not red wrote:

The system must have been failing then as well because Lineham was a buy in. Truth is youth development doesn't provide a steady drip feed of talent in any case - they come in fits and starts and not smoothly distributed over all positions. There is absolutely nothing wrong with recruiting "external" youngsters. Leeds, Wigan, Saints and Wire all do it - its just the closer geographic distances involved with them make it less obvious at times.

Exactly.

No coach would drop a fit senior player and put in a youngster for a number of weeks. Youngsters are played out of necessity to cover injuries. The hope is that the system has prepared them enough to do so to an adequate standard, and the onus is also on that PLAYER to take the chance presented to him. Of course, some won't get the chance due to having someone better infront of them, but that's just how it is and has always been.

Look at Leeds as another example in recent seasons. Lilley played last year as McGuire was out for large parts. Handley to cover Hall. Golding to cover Hardaker once he was suspended. Sutcliffe maybe, but I can't see him being first choice next year. Some forwards have had game time, but still none have really cemented a spot recently.

Re: Bradford : Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:46 pm  

Erik the not red wrote:

The system must have been failing then as well because Lineham was a buy in. Truth is youth development doesn't provide a steady drip feed of talent in any case - they come in fits and starts and not smoothly distributed over all positions. There is absolutely nothing wrong with recruiting "external" youngsters. Leeds, Wigan, Saints and Wire all do it - its just the closer geographic distances involved with them make it less obvious at times.

Of course other big teams sign other teams kids, but if Hull FC is to be able to regularly compete at the top level then we need a regular influx of youth coming through to be more than bit part squad members that get the odd game here or there.
Despite all the investment and shouting about how fantastic our youth system is the reality is we've not had many coming through at all the last few years when the fruition should have being kicking in.
5 years on and we have 3 Hull youth players from that period in the 1st 17 - Shaul, Bowden, Hadleys not what i would call a good return.
I'm not trying to be negative, I'm just worried that after seeing quite a few fall by the waysiude that our youth system is doing what we had hoped it would given the cash and effort thrown at it.

Re: Bradford : Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:05 am  

One possible solution to allow clubs to have the option of blooding more youngsters in a first team game would be to increase the number of players on the interchange bench, perhaps to 6. You could keep the amount of interchanges the same, but by having extra places available clubs would have the opportunity to involve a youngster on the bench, and if the game scenario allowed for it, said youngster/s would be able to enter the game and gain experience. As it is, only injuries or the youngster being too good to refuse game time are the likely scenario where most clubs would give a youngster a break.

Re: Bradford : Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:13 am  

blakeysrobin wrote:

Disco Dave was quite sprightly this aft!

He was ok, did nothing special just solid, young Oakes looked better.