RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
23 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!
WWW.RLFANS.COM • View topic - Stats don't lie
Stats don't lie Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:12 pm  
Stats don't lie
Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:12 pm  

User avatarPopTart wrote:
PopTart User avatar
100% League Network
100% League Network

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:10 am
Posts: 16294
Location: wakefield
Member for 14 years
The Salford game is a nightmare to watch whether at the game, highlights or just reading the scoreline.

I don't however buy into the trend that all the players couldn't be bothered or that they are all rubbish or that the coach is rubbish.
I think the stats show us where the problems were quite clearly

Of the 13 tries scored
3 from kicks that could have been fielded, positional play from fullback was key to one, from wing for the others
1 was a well worked overlap that was just a good try
5 were direct one on one missed tackles by Minns
2 were through the gap left by Croft and Lineham
2 imho were referee errors.

When you look at the stats
Minns attempted 20 tackles, missing 5. All led directly to tries
Croft attempted 18 tackles and missed 7.
Most telling for me is Lineham. Attempted 1 tackle and missed it - yet 4 tries were scored on his wing

In the forwards, Butler did not carry the ball once!

However,
Whitbread made 28 tackles and missed none. 8 carries with an average gain of 7 and was unlucky not to score.
Batch made 25 tackles missing none
Pitts made 23 tackles missing none
Hood made 21 tackles missing none.
Fifita made 27 tackles and missed one.

Not everyone on the field was giving up the ghost. Some were working hard and being let down by others.
Clearly we didn't have much ball so the carries were low numbers but to me it was a mix of players trying hard and players just not good enough.
We are clearly not going to beat Wigan but if we can get Hall back and put Batch back to centre (and probably put Max at 1) I think it makes for a much better chance at magic.
A dog is not considered a good dog because he is a good barker. A man is not considered a good man because he is a good talker - Buddha
Re: Stats don't lie Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:33 pm  
Re: Stats don't lie
Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:33 pm  

User avatarvastman wrote:
vastman User avatar
Gold RLFANS Member
Gold RLFANS Member

Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:37 pm
Posts: 34112
Location: Poodle Power!
Member for 18 years
PopTart wrote:
The Salford game is a nightmare to watch whether at the game, highlights or just reading the scoreline.

I don't however buy into the trend that all the players couldn't be bothered or that they are all rubbish or that the coach is rubbish.
I think the stats show us where the problems were quite clearly

Of the 13 tries scored
3 from kicks that could have been fielded, positional play from fullback was key to one, from wing for the others
1 was a well worked overlap that was just a good try
5 were direct one on one missed tackles by Minns
2 were through the gap left by Croft and Lineham
2 imho were referee errors.

When you look at the stats
Minns attempted 20 tackles, missing 5. All led directly to tries
Croft attempted 18 tackles and missed 7.
Most telling for me is Lineham. Attempted 1 tackle and missed it - yet 4 tries were scored on his wing

In the forwards, Butler did not carry the ball once!

However,
Whitbread made 28 tackles and missed none. 8 carries with an average gain of 7 and was unlucky not to score.
Batch made 25 tackles missing none
Pitts made 23 tackles missing none
Hood made 21 tackles missing none.
Fifita made 27 tackles and missed one.

Not everyone on the field was giving up the ghost. Some were working hard and being let down by others.
Clearly we didn't have much ball so the carries were low numbers but to me it was a mix of players trying hard and players just not good enough.
We are clearly not going to beat Wigan but if we can get Hall back and put Batch back to centre (and probably put Max at 1) I think it makes for a much better chance at magic.


That's the point so many miss, it's a team game and if one link fails it caused problems but when a large number of links break that is a disaster. Doesn't matter what the rest of the team do, when 3 or more players are malfunctioning then there is little anyone can do. The scoreline then depends on how quickly the opposition spot the problem, Salford were pretty quick on the uptake.

It also works the other way around, when all the players are playing at the top of their game, even the mediocre ones, the team becomes almost unbeatable.

I'm not shocked by Minns who I just don't get, or Gaskel who is simply blown and Lineman who has only played well once against Warrington and is taking the mick, I'd love to see his missed tackles for the season.

The only one who shocked me is Croft who I've always rated, but I suppose he was rusty and unlucky to be paired with Lineham. I'll forgive him.

The other three shouldn't play for the club ever again. I don't think Gaskell is taking the mick I just think he's shot.

What though really worries me is that Poching must see the same stats as you and I suspect they read very much the same in other games, so why is he picking these players? Baffles me.

The only theory I have is either Poching is a poor coach or that he knows exactly where we will be playing our RL next year. If it's the latter then a bit like the Soviets in WW2 he's throwing his men against the enemy and accepting losses to see who can and can't cope. It's a massive long shot but it's the best I have.
SUPPORT SWAG...
Re: Stats don't lie Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:35 pm  
Re: Stats don't lie
Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:35 pm  

Luppylad wrote:
Luppylad Free-scoring winger
Free-scoring winger

Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:50 pm
Posts: 1404
Member for 2 years
PopTart wrote:
The Salford game is a nightmare to watch whether at the game, highlights or just reading the scoreline.

I don't however buy into the trend that all the players couldn't be bothered or that they are all rubbish or that the coach is rubbish.
I think the stats show us where the problems were quite clearly

Of the 13 tries scored
3 from kicks that could have been fielded, positional play from fullback was key to one, from wing for the others
1 was a well worked overlap that was just a good try
5 were direct one on one missed tackles by Minns
2 were through the gap left by Croft and Lineham
2 imho were referee errors.

When you look at the stats
Minns attempted 20 tackles, missing 5. All led directly to tries
Croft attempted 18 tackles and missed 7.
Most telling for me is Lineham. Attempted 1 tackle and missed it - yet 4 tries were scored on his wing

In the forwards, Butler did not carry the ball once!

However,
Whitbread made 28 tackles and missed none. 8 carries with an average gain of 7 and was unlucky not to score.
Batch made 25 tackles missing none
Pitts made 23 tackles missing none
Hood made 21 tackles missing none.
Fifita made 27 tackles and missed one.

Not everyone on the field was giving up the ghost. Some were working hard and being let down by others.
Clearly we didn't have much ball so the carries were low numbers but to me it was a mix of players trying hard and players just not good enough.
We are clearly not going to beat Wigan but if we can get Hall back and put Batch back to centre (and probably put Max at 1) I think it makes for a much better chance at magic.



Dont want to bad name players but its obvious what the biggest problem was yesterday going on that so yes batch back to centre hopefully hall fit and max in fb and for me kyke evans onto wing who has been outstanding for the reserves
Re: Stats don't lie Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:37 pm  
Re: Stats don't lie
Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:37 pm  

User avatarvastman wrote:
vastman User avatar
Gold RLFANS Member
Gold RLFANS Member

Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:37 pm
Posts: 34112
Location: Poodle Power!
Member for 18 years
Luppylad wrote:
Dont want to bad name players but its obvious what the biggest problem was yesterday going on that so yes batch back to centre hopefully hall fit and max in fb and for me kyke evans onto wing who has been outstanding for the reserves


Yep, I have to admit I'm amazed he hasn't had a run. Murphy has been outstanding but Lineham has managed one half decent effort so I can't see whats stopping him. It's not like the bloke is some rookie either, he's plenty of experience to won't be overawed.
SUPPORT SWAG...
Re: Stats don't lie Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:11 pm  
Re: Stats don't lie
Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:11 pm  

User avatarFIL wrote:
FIL User avatar
Bronze RLFANS Member
Bronze RLFANS Member

Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2009 4:17 pm
Posts: 3447
Location: Riding the Trinity rollercoaster !!
Member for 13 years
Jeez...some shocking stats there (good work PT) which clearly show where it all went pear-shaped yesterday and the obvious fix is as per Luppy's solution (assuming those players are fit ??).
Do we know why Hall didn't play ??
M.I.B. ??....nope - M.I.R.W.B !!!

Sent from my steam-powered Sinclair ZX81.
Re: Stats don't lie Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:19 pm  
Re: Stats don't lie
Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:19 pm  

User avatarvastman wrote:
vastman User avatar
Gold RLFANS Member
Gold RLFANS Member

Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:37 pm
Posts: 34112
Location: Poodle Power!
Member for 18 years
FIL wrote:
Jeez...some shocking stats there (good work PT) which clearly show where it all went pear-shaped yesterday and the obvious fix is as per Luppy's solution (assuming those players are fit ??).
Do we know why Hall didn't play ??


My guess is he needed resting. He's pretty young so two weeks off will have done him some good. Again I have a nagging feeling that all clubs know exactly where they will be next year so are happy to experiment unless they have a real top six chance, which we don't. It's just a feeling I have, I don't have any inside info.
SUPPORT SWAG...
Re: Stats don't lie Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:38 pm  
Re: Stats don't lie
Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:38 pm  

dboy wrote:
dboy Bronze RLFANS Member
Bronze RLFANS Member

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:38 pm
Posts: 3689
Location: Barnsley
Member for 17 years
vastman wrote:
My guess is he needed resting. He's pretty young so two weeks off will have done him some good. Again I have a nagging feeling that all clubs know exactly where they will be next year so are happy to experiment unless they have a real top six chance, which we don't. It's just a feeling I have, I don't have any inside info.


Can you explain what you are eluding to please?
Re: Stats don't lie Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:40 pm  
Re: Stats don't lie
Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:40 pm  

User avatarPat Bateman wrote:
Pat Bateman User avatar
Free-scoring winger
Free-scoring winger

Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:57 pm
Posts: 1187
Location: Wakefield
Member for 12 years
They are really damning stats from our back line, especially the Minns ones which resulted in 5 tries. Even the best miss tackles, Dane Gagai has missed 18 tackles in the first 2 SOO games, though he’s up against some of the best on the planet. Also he has quality to cover him on the inside and out, we don’t. You simply can’t play 2 lads, one who hadn’t played in 2 years at this level, and Minns who unfortunately isn’t SL standard, it’s not fair on them or their team mates. Think it just goes to show what a top job Lyne and Hall do
DONT TOUCH THE WATCH
Re: Stats don't lie Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:52 pm  
Re: Stats don't lie
Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:52 pm  
Kirmudgeonlyisback Strong-running second rower
Strong-running second rower

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:28 pm
Posts: 363
Member for 2 years
Stats pretty much confirm my impression at the game at one point following a missed one on one by minns thought Pitt’s was going to deliver some natural justice !

Personally think we have answered the question re minns and club should terminate his contract or send him on loan.

Croft there is a big question mark about

You’ve only to look at Lineham to question wether he’s actually a full time professional sports man

Gaskell is cover would be very worried if he’s a starter next year , we really don’t need someone to run at the side of opposition players on the way to the line.

Our view on the day was down the middle we were pretty solid, but with exception of miller and Murphy rest of backs would have been better left in dressing room
Re: Stats don't lie Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:54 pm  
Re: Stats don't lie
Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:54 pm  

Prince Buster User avatar
Bronze RLFANS Member
Bronze RLFANS Member

Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 1:17 pm
Posts: 4147
Location: Orange street
Member for 18 years
Plenty of those missed tackles I saw the player actually had contact with the Salford player but just fell off. But to me the criminal stats are from Lineham as he did not even get to make contact. Also did you notice his total lack of pace compared to the Salford backs.
I have heard Lineham is a bit of a practical joker and general fool about. His efforts seem to verify that as he certainly has made a fool of our club. Never mind he will have the last laugh as he was handed a 3 year deal.
Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: lampyboy, LG83, Travelling Wilbury, Trojan Horse, vastman, Wakeywakeywakey, Yippee try yay and 157 guests

REPLY

Subject: 
Message:
   
Please note using apple style emoji's can result in posting failures.
Use the FULL EDITOR to better format content or upload images, be notified of replies etc...

Return to Wakefield Trinity


RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
8m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
29347
11m
Game - Song Titles 20212
Boss Hog
12927
20m
Wigan v Sts discussion
Jason65
348
34m
Brad on the move
Travelling W
24
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
31s
2023 OUT Bodene Thompson - Released
Clearwing
12
35s
RD 24 Warrington Wolves H
Neruda
65
40s
Kelepi
FIL
60
49s
South based Rhinosan appeal
Jamie101
3
54s
Three new signings
RagingBull
96
1m
Transfer Talk / Rumour thread V4
cheekydiddle
1230
1m
WHITBREAD
Wildcatnomor
25
2m
Oh well Wakey next
mwindass
143
2m
Sunday - York H
Leyther in n
2
2m
2022 Penalties Awarded so far
moto748
4
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Sunday - York H
Leyther in n
2
TODAY
Huddersfield
jools
5
TODAY
Second Half Giants Onslaught Sees Off The Tigers Challenge
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
wrench
Barbed Wire
15
TODAY
Round 24 Salford Home
Jimmythecuck
1
TODAY
Brad on the move
Travelling W
24
Random Topics selected.
POSTSONLINEMEMBERSRECORD
19.36Million +11,674 79,18934,030
LOGIN HERE
or REGISTER for more features!.

When you register you get access to the live match scores, live match chat and you can post in the discussions on the forums.
RLFANS Match Centre

TABLES:
 TODAY
     National Rugby League 2022-R23
09:00
NQL Cowboys
v
NZ Warriors
10:55
Brisbane
v
Melbourne
     Super League XXVII-R24
20:00
Hull FC
v
Wakefield
20:00
Leeds
v
Warrington
20:00
St.Helens
v
Hull KR
20:00
Wigan
v
Toulouse
 Thu 25th Aug
     Super League XXVII-R25
19:30
Wakefield
v
Hull KR
 Mon 29th Aug
     Super League XXVII-R26
15:00
St.Helens
v
Wakefield
 Fri 2nd Sep
     Super League XXVII-R27
20:00
Huddersfield
v
Wakefield
ALL SCORES PROVIDED BY RLFANS.COM (SETTINGS)
Matches on TV
Fri 19th Aug
SL RND: 24
20:00
Hull FC-Wakefield
Wed 24th Aug
SL RND: 25
20:00
Leeds-Huddersfield
Thu 25th Aug
SL RND: 25
19:30
Toulouse-Catalans
Fri 26th Aug
SL RND: 25
20:00
Wigan-St.Helens
Sat 15th Oct
WC2022 RND: 1
14:30
England-SAM
WC2022 RND: 1
19:30
Australia-Fiji
Sun 16th Oct
WC2022 RND: 1
17:00
JAM-IRE
WC2022 RND: 1
19:30
NZ-Lebanon
WC2022 RND: 1
14:30
SCO-IRE
Mon 17th Oct
WC2022 RND: 1
19:30
France-Greece
Tue 18th Oct
WC2022 RND: 1
19:30
Tonga-PNG
Wed 19th Oct
WC2022 RND: 1
19:30
WAL-Cook I
Fri 21st Oct
WC2022 RND: 2
19:30
Australia-SCO
Sat 22nd Oct
WC2022 RND: 2
14:30
Fiji-ITA
WC2022 RND: 2
17:00
England-France
WC2022 RND: 2
19:30
NZ-JAM
Sun 23rd Oct
WC2022 RND: 2
14:30
Lebanon-IRE
WC2022 RND: 2
17:00
France-Greece
Mon 24th Oct
WC2022 RND: 2
19:30
Tonga-WAL
Tue 25th Oct
WC2022 RND: 2
19:30
PNG-Cook I
Thu 18th Aug
SL RND: 24 Huddersfield36-10Castleford
NRL RND: 23 Souths22-26Penrith
Mon 15th Aug
CH RND: 23 York16-20Bradford
Sun 14th Aug
SL RND: 23 Hull FC6-60St.Helens
SL RND: 23 Wakefield30-12Wigan
CH RND: 23 Batley12-30Barrow
CH RND: 23 Featherstone72-6Dewsbury
CH RND: 23 LondonB38-12Workington
CH RND: 23 Whitehaven12-26Widnes
CH RND: 23 Newcastle0-60Leigh
L1 RND: 19 Rochdale34-14Cornwall
L1 RND: 19 Keighley60-18Hunslet
L1 RND: 19 Midlands18-52Doncaster
L1 RND: 19 Oldham60-6LondonS
NRL RND: 22 Canberra24-22St.George
NRL RND: 22 Gold Coast44-24Manly
Sat 13th Aug
SL RND: 23 Salford33-16Huddersfield
L1 RND: 19 West Wales6-94Swinton
NRL RND: 22 Sydney32-18NQL Cowboys
NRL RND: 22 Wests12-36Cronulla
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
Betfred Championship 2022 ROUND : 24
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Leigh 23 1042 188 854 44
Featherstone 23 906 386 520 39
Halifax 23 701 384 317 34
Batley 23 650 425 225 32
Barrow 23 599 495 104 31
York 23 555 454 101 30
 
Widnes 23 518 565 -47 22
Bradford 23 477 560 -83 22
Sheffield 23 605 568 37 20
LondonB 23 472 592 -120 15
Newcastle 23 497 709 -212 15
Whitehaven 23 368 800 -432 11
Dewsbury 23 291 848 -557 5
Workington 23 244 951 -707 2
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
Betfred League One 2022 ROUND : 20
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Keighley 16 729 136 593 32
Crusaders 17 640 308 332 28
Swinton 17 699 269 430 26
Doncaster 17 600 344 256 26
Rochdale 17 622 423 199 24
Hunslet 17 463 424 39 17
 
Oldham 17 503 461 42 13
LondonS 17 362 639 -277 10
Midlands 17 434 628 -194 8
Cornwall 18 262 750 -488 2
West Wales 18 150 1082 -932 2
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
Betfred Super League XXVII ROUND : 24
 PLDFADIFFPTS
St.Helens 23 572 282 290 38
Wigan 23 660 425 235 32
Huddersfield 24 545 429 116 31
Catalans 23 465 387 78 28
Castleford 24 507 538 -31 24
Leeds 23 503 456 47 23
 
Salford 23 562 528 34 22
Hull KR 23 406 520 -114 20
Hull FC 23 430 573 -143 20
Warrington 23 464 569 -105 16
Wakefield 23 405 590 -185 14
Toulouse 23 373 595 -222 10
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
National Rugby League 2022 ROUND : 23
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Penrith 22 582 341 241 36
Melbourne 21 630 358 272 30
NQL Cowboys 21 537 329 208 30
Cronulla 21 479 342 137 30
Souths 22 568 438 130 26
Brisbane 21 484 415 69 26
Parramatta 21 491 463 28 26
Sydney 21 521 396 125 24
 
Canberra 21 392 423 -31 22
Manly 21 458 486 -28 18
St.George 21 375 511 -136 18
Canterbury 21 356 497 -141 12
NZ Warriors 21 366 579 -213 12
Newcastle 21 308 560 -252 12
Gold Coast 21 366 562 -196 8
Wests 21 314 527 -213 8
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
8m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
29347
11m
Game - Song Titles 20212
Boss Hog
12927
20m
Wigan v Sts discussion
Jason65
348
34m
Brad on the move
Travelling W
24
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
31s
2023 OUT Bodene Thompson - Released
Clearwing
12
35s
RD 24 Warrington Wolves H
Neruda
65
40s
Kelepi
FIL
60
49s
South based Rhinosan appeal
Jamie101
3
54s
Three new signings
RagingBull
96
1m
Transfer Talk / Rumour thread V4
cheekydiddle
1230
1m
WHITBREAD
Wildcatnomor
25
2m
Oh well Wakey next
mwindass
143
2m
Sunday - York H
Leyther in n
2
2m
2022 Penalties Awarded so far
moto748
4
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Sunday - York H
Leyther in n
2
TODAY
Huddersfield
jools
5
TODAY
Second Half Giants Onslaught Sees Off The Tigers Challenge
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
wrench
Barbed Wire
15
TODAY
Round 24 Salford Home
Jimmythecuck
1
TODAY
Brad on the move
Travelling W
24
Random Topics selected.


Visit the RLFANS.COM SHOP
for more merchandise!