Re: Tom Johnstone : Thu May 12, 2022 7:42 am  

Collins was class but I seem to remember he missed a lot of games too?

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Re: Tom Johnstone : Thu May 12, 2022 8:32 am  

Manuel wrote:

Collins was class but I seem to remember he missed a lot of games too?

Yes. The odds on he and Tom being on the field at the same time are worse than the Euromillions.

There is no doubt that the centres named are great, but the service to Tom hasn't been poor from the centres he's had.
Hall will end up a top class centre. Arundel gave him good service and Tupou, although done with slip balls rather than graceful passes has done him well.
His try rate is pretty good and better than most.
I seem to remember he's one of if not the fastest to get to one hundred tries at Wakefield.
His stats suffer because he's missed so many games. His try per game rate would have him competing for top try scorer every year if he played every game.
Not his fault but it's just how it's been for him.
It will be even harder at Catalan or Wigan because there are more players scoring tries in those teams. Not just him.

Re: Tom Johnstone : Thu May 12, 2022 8:51 am  

PopTart wrote:

Yes. The odds on he and Tom being on the field at the same time are worse than the Euromillions.

There is no doubt that the centres named are great, but the service to Tom hasn't been poor from the centres he's had.
Hall will end up a top class centre. Arundel gave him good service and Tupou, although done with slip balls rather than graceful passes has done him well.
His try rate is pretty good and better than most.
I seem to remember he's one of if not the fastest to get to one hundred tries at Wakefield.
His stats suffer because he's missed so many games. His try per game rate would have him competing for top try scorer every year if he played every game.
Not his fault but it's just how it's been for him.
It will be even harder at Catalan or Wigan because there are more players scoring tries in those teams. Not just him.

Yes but he will be given more space to show his abilities because the opposition have more attack and skilful players to cover than they do against us. To lose TJ is not just the loss of one of our most box office players but also what message it send to others about our ambitions. I understand he is out of contract but we have had quite sometime to tie him down, so either our offer was not good enough or he believes his future would be better served away from Wakefield. I suppose whichever way you look at it either scenario does not put the club’s prospects in a good place.
He may of course sign a new contract we shall see.

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Re: Tom Johnstone : Thu May 12, 2022 9:09 am  

Scarlet Pimpernell wrote:

Yes but he will be given more space to show his abilities because the opposition have more attack and skilful players to cover than they do against us. To lose TJ is not just the loss of one of our most box office players but also what message it send to others about our ambitions. I understand he is out of contract but we have had quite sometime to tie him down, so either our offer was not good enough or he believes his future would be better served away from Wakefield. I suppose whichever way you look at it either scenario does not put the club’s prospects in a good place.
He may of course sign a new contract we shall see.

You said the same last year about Batch.
Just because they haven't resigned by the deadline to talk to other clubs doesn't mean they won't, nor does it mean they don't want to.

Re: Tom Johnstone : Thu May 12, 2022 10:12 am  

PopTart wrote:

Yes. The odds on he and Tom being on the field at the same time are worse than the Euromillions.

There is no doubt that the centres named are great, but the service to Tom hasn't been poor from the centres he's had.
Hall will end up a top class centre. Arundel gave him good service and Tupou, although done with slip balls rather than graceful passes has done him well.
His try rate is pretty good and better than most.
I seem to remember he's one of if not the fastest to get to one hundred tries at Wakefield.
His stats suffer because he's missed so many games. His try per game rate would have him competing for top try scorer every year if he played every game.
Not his fault but it's just how it's been for him.
It will be even harder at Catalan or Wigan because there are more players scoring tries in those teams. Not just him.

Don’t really agree. Arundel was the best but Tupou is not a natural provider just like Lyne. Their style has its merits but they are not classic centres. This is why so many of Toms tries come from kicks, long cut out passes and individual brilliance.

Watch his highlights on YouTube Tupou rarely makes him space and then releases the ball to him.

A better argument imho is that the ball takes so long to reach the centres especially since Finn retired that the decision making time for the centres is limited. Even Gene Miles the best playmaking centre I’ve seen would struggle with us.

Toms value to us is above all else his ability to make tries from nothing and we will miss that should he go.

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Re: Tom Johnstone : Thu May 12, 2022 11:41 am  

vastman wrote:

Don’t really agree. Arundel was the best but Tupou is not a natural provider just like Lyne. Their style has its merits but they are not classic centres. This is why so many of Toms tries come from kicks, long cut out passes and individual brilliance.

Watch his highlights on YouTube Tupou rarely makes him space and then releases the ball to him.

A better argument imho is that the ball takes so long to reach the centres especially since Finn retired that the decision making time for the centres is limited. Even Gene Miles the best playmaking centre I’ve seen would struggle with us.

Toms value to us is above all else his ability to make tries from nothing and we will miss that should he go.

We agree. I just said that Tupou's service is different. He busts tge line and slips the ball instead of making space and passing. Still gave him good enough service to score a lot of tries.

As for the the other point, that is exactly the issue for me. It isn't the centre that is the problem.

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Re: Tom Johnstone : Thu May 12, 2022 11:48 am  

Scarlet Pimpernell wrote:

Yes but he will be given more space to show his abilities because the opposition have more attack and skilful players to cover than they do against us. To lose TJ is not just the loss of one of our most box office players but also what message it send to others about our ambitions. I understand he is out of contract but we have had quite sometime to tie him down, so either our offer was not good enough or he believes his future would be better served away from Wakefield. I suppose whichever way you look at it either scenario does not put the club’s prospects in a good place.
He may of course sign a new contract we shall see.

Tom has a try rate of 75%
Makinson has a try rate 57%
Regan Grace is 63%

Charnley is better at 82%

But it shows playing for the top team doesn't always give you more opportunities to score tries.

Re: Tom Johnstone : Thu May 12, 2022 12:17 pm  

PopTart wrote:

Tom has a try rate of 75%
Makinson has a try rate 57%
Regan Grace is 63%

Charnley is better at 82%

But it shows playing for the top team doesn't always give you more opportunities to score tries.

You can spin that both ways. You could argue that in Charnley's case he's a crap player in a good team (I don't think he's crap).

Ditto Makinson and Grace have had to share the tries because at Saints everyone gets a chance to score.

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Re: Tom Johnstone : Thu May 12, 2022 1:21 pm  

vastman wrote:

You can spin that both ways. You could argue that in Charnley's case he's a crap player in a good team (I don't think he's crap).

Ditto Makinson and Grace have had to share the tries because at Saints everyone gets a chance to score.

But it can't prove both.
Scarlet said the Tom would get more opportunities playing for a better side. The stats show it isn't a certainty.

Re: Tom Johnstone : Thu May 12, 2022 1:52 pm  

PopTart wrote:

But it can't prove both.
Scarlet said the Tom would get more opportunities playing for a better side. The stats show it isn't a certainty.

At the risk of sounding grubby, just imagine how many he would score if we used our left edge like Cas.
Please accept my apologies for the bad taste and inappropriate language.

As for Johnstone, just imagine what effect it would have on Trinity if he were to leave.
Yes, other wingers would score many of those tries but, some are only possible for a player of Johnstone's unique brilliance.