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Overseas Players by club Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:02 am  

User avatarPopTart wrote:
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Castleford Tigers: 6 - Peter Mata’utia, Sosaia Feki, Grant Millington, Jesse Sene-Lefao, Cheyse Blair, Suaia Matagi

Catalans Dragons: 5 - Samisoni Langi, Israel Folau, James Maloney, Josh Drinkwater, Sam Kasiano

Huddersfield Giants: 7 - Aidan Sezer, James Gavet, Kenny Edwards, Jack Cogger, Luke Yates, Chris McQueen, Ricky Leutele

Hull FC: 7 - Carlos Tuimavave, Mahe Fonua, Manu Ma’u, Chris Satae, Bureta Faraimo, Ligi Sao, Josh Reynolds

Hull KR: 7 - Adam Quinlan, Matt Parcell, Shaun Kenny-Dowall, Kane Linnett, Korbin Sims, Brad Takairangi, Albert Vete

Leeds Rhinos: 7 - Konrad Hurrell, Robert Lui, Matt Prior, Rhyse Martin, Bodene Thompson, Zane Tetevano, King Vuniyayawa

Leigh Centurions: 5 – Blake Wallace, Junior Sa’u, Mark Ioane, James Bell, Nathaniel Peteru

Salford Red Devils: 7 - Tui Lolohea, Pauli Pauli, Sebastine Ikahihifo, Ken Sio, Krisnan Inu, Elijah Taylor, Darcy Lussick

St Helens: 5 - Lachlan Coote, Kevin Naiqama, Joel Thompson, Sione Mata’utia, Agnatius Paasi

Wakefield Trinity: 7 - Tinirau Arona, David Fifita, Jacob Miller, Kelepi Tanginoa, Bill Tupou, Adam Tangata, Mason Lino

Warrington Wolves: 6 - Sitaleki Akauola, Blake Austin, Jason Clark, Leilani Latu, Jake Mamo, Greg Inglis

Wigan Warriors: 6 - Mitch Clark, Bevan French, Jackson Hastings, Willie Isa, Thomas Leuluai, Jai Field
A dog is not considered a good dog because he is a good barker. A man is not considered a good man because he is a good talker - Buddha
Re: Overseas Players by club Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:09 am  

Luppylad wrote:
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Quite sad how many there is in all honesty not good for british game
Re: Overseas Players by club Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:17 am  
newgroundb4wakey Free-scoring winger
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Luppylad wrote:
Quite sad how many there is in all honesty not good for british game


Agree to some degree mate, but look at Grant Millington at Cas. he's been a fantastic servant ant all the up and coming young props give him credit for how much they've learnt from him. There must be others in the list that have done the same as Grant but others as you say are the opposite.
Re: Overseas Players by club Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:23 am  

User avatarBarnsleyGull wrote:
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newgroundb4wakey wrote:
Agree to some degree mate, but look at Grant Millington at Cas. he's been a fantastic servant ant all the up and coming young props give him credit for how much they've learnt from him. There must be others in the list that have done the same as Grant but others as you say are the opposite.


Good example....
But....Its like any sport....
With some it works, with others it doesn't......
Re: Overseas Players by club Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:44 am  

User avatarvastman wrote:
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There is nothing wrong with overseas signings if they fit one of two criteria.

One, they are better in a specific roll than any British player currently available. For us this is a fairly small list, Solomona and Brad Drew are the most obvious for us, probably the nearest we ever got to a marquee signing.

The second and far more common in our case are the overseas players who are better than anything we can produce ourselves or afford to purchase in the British game. There are so many of those I don’t know where to start but a classic example would be JD or McGilvery. Utter nobodies yet it’s hard to deny they turned out better than anything we had at the time, or at least anything we could keep hold of!

Things are different now for us in that at long last we seem to trust our own youth system. We still depend a lot on overseas but our U.K. stock is slowly becoming our own, huge positive.

I’m not going to comment much on our own overseas players other than to say they are vital to us.

What is worth noting and something that has massively decreased is our dependence on Australian players. Nearly all ours and a fair percentage of the rest in SL are of Somoan or Tongan extraction. Because neither of these nations has a pro domestic league these players are just as ‘overseas’ when in the NRL. Despite how it’s twisted by the international selection criteria the NRL is nearly as dependent on Kiwis, Somoans, Tongans, Fijians and Cook islanders as we are!

Truth is when those tiny nations fell under the Anglosphere we unearthed a goldmine of athleticism and bravery, our gain.

In an ever more international world this sort of thing is the norm, look at football, some Premiership clubs can and do use selections with no English players at all!

I do think we import at times for the sake of it, at a rough guess I’d say maybe 30% of overseas players in SL at any one time are no better than could be found domestically. It’s these 30% who are causing the issue, they are just talent blockers.

I don’t blame them, I do blame Coaches and Chairman without imagination who are easily seduced by a glossy video and an Aussie sounding accent. I also blame to a lesser degree agents and parents of young British players who have ridiculous ideas as to the worth of said players. These people push and push their unrealistic agenda so hard that they price their charges out of the market and thus the cheaper more proven import steps in.

Obviously the above is a generalisation and most parents and agents are realistic but there are still enough left to cause problems. I know it’s a short career but you still have to prove yourself before you get the big money!

It’s a hard thing to balance but slowly I do think the game is getting better. However until we make serous efforts to reinvigorate the junior game and enlarge the gene pool we are stuffed. My unscientific estimate is that to compete against the Aussies we need three times as many youngsters playing aas currently do.

In this PlayStation obsessed world where football is king that just won’t happen. So what we must do is look after what we have and expand as much as we can, especially into none RL areas and communities. It’s not to late.
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Re: Overseas Players by club Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:19 am  
newgroundb4wakey Free-scoring winger
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vastman wrote:
There is nothing wrong with overseas signings if they fit one of two criteria.

One, they are better in a specific roll than any British player currently available. For us this is a fairly small list, Solomona and Brad Drew are the most obvious for us, probably the nearest we ever got to a marquee signing.

The second and far more common in our case are the overseas players who are better than anything we can produce ourselves or afford to purchase in the British game. There are so many of those I don’t know where to start but a classic example would be JD or McGilvery. Utter nobodies yet it’s hard to deny they turned out better than anything we had at the time, or at least anything we could keep hold of!

Things are different now for us in that at long last we seem to trust our own youth system. We still depend a lot on overseas but our U.K. stock is slowly becoming our own, huge positive.

I’m not going to comment much on our own overseas players other than to say they are vital to us.

What is worth noting and something that has massively decreased is our dependence on Australian players. Nearly all ours and a fair percentage of the rest in SL are of Somoan or Tongan extraction. Because neither of these nations has a pro domestic league these players are just as ‘overseas’ when in the NRL. Despite how it’s twisted by the international selection criteria the NRL is nearly as dependent on Kiwis, Somoans, Tongans, Fijians and Cook islanders as we are!

Truth is when those tiny nations fell under the Anglosphere we unearthed a goldmine of athleticism and bravery, our gain.

In an ever more international world this sort of thing is the norm, look at football, some Premiership clubs can and do use selections with no English players at all!

I do think we import at times for the sake of it, at a rough guess I’d say maybe 30% of overseas players in SL at any one time are no better than could be found domestically. It’s these 30% who are causing the issue, they are just talent blockers.

I don’t blame them, I do blame Coaches and Chairman without imagination who are easily seduced by a glossy video and an Aussie sounding accent. I also blame to a lesser degree agents and parents of young British players who have ridiculous ideas as to the worth of said players. These people push and push their unrealistic agenda so hard that they price their charges out of the market and thus the cheaper more proven import steps in.

Obviously the above is a generalisation and most parents and agents are realistic but there are still enough left to cause problems. I know it’s a short career but you still have to prove yourself before you get the big money!

It’s a hard thing to balance but slowly I do think the game is getting better. However until we make serous efforts to reinvigorate the junior game and enlarge the gene pool we are stuffed. My unscientific estimate is that to compete against the Aussies we need three times as many youngsters playing aas currently do.

In this PlayStation obsessed world where football is king that just won’t happen. So what we must do is look after what we have and expand as much as we can, especially into none RL areas and communities. It’s not to late.


Top post Vasty, slightly OT but how do you view the Catalan situation regarding overseas players? I noticed in one game last season they only had 3 French players in their starting 17. I don't think that was the plan when they were gifted a Super League spot.
Re: Overseas Players by club Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:18 am  

User avatarPopTart wrote:
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newgroundb4wakey wrote:
Top post Vasty, slightly OT but how do you view the Catalan situation regarding overseas players? I noticed in one game last season they only had 3 French players in their starting 17. I don't think that was the plan when they were gifted a Super League spot.


Counting the English players is a different thing to me.
Yes it's about generating a French team but it's also about generating a French support and income.
Taking SL players over helps them with that.
A dog is not considered a good dog because he is a good barker. A man is not considered a good man because he is a good talker - Buddha
Re: Overseas Players by club Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:31 pm  

User avatarhomme vaste wrote:
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PopTart wrote:
Counting the English players is a different thing to me.
Yes it's about generating a French team but it's also about generating a French support and income.
Taking SL players over helps them with that.


Surely the end goal is to ensure that French rugby league is sustainable as a full time professional sport, although generating income and support is important, you would think that youth development/player production should be there number one priority considering there main justification of bringing Catalan in and giving them dispensation from relegation was strenghting the French national team?
Re: Overseas Players by club Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:18 pm  
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homme vaste wrote:
Surely the end goal is to ensure that French rugby league is sustainable as a full time professional sport, although generating income and support is important, you would think that youth development/player production should be there number one priority considering there main justification of bringing Catalan in and giving them dispensation from relegation was strenghting the French national team?


I believe they entered SL to do that have they done it no not really the International team in France is still poor at competing.
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Re: Overseas Players by club Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:22 pm  

User avatarPopTart wrote:
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homme vaste wrote:
Surely the end goal is to ensure that French rugby league is sustainable as a full time professional sport, although generating income and support is important, you would think that youth development/player production should be there number one priority considering there main justification of bringing Catalan in and giving them dispensation from relegation was strenghting the French national team?


I think that's a double standard in SL.
Many English SL clubs build their youth team by bringing in young players from other areas.
Some have great youth development. Some don't and just piggy back.

The essencial thing for Catalan is to have a sustainable club yes but that is probably more about finances than youth development. They need to make sure they have a team that brings in crowds so they can invest locally.

And preempting the question - how long will they have to keep doing that?
My answer - as long as it takes
A dog is not considered a good dog because he is a good barker. A man is not considered a good man because he is a good talker - Buddha
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