Re: Hampshire v Williams : Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:40 pm  

And Brough has been light years in front of the lot of them for years.

Re: Hampshire v Williams : Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:44 pm  

QwerkyCat wrote:

Our halfback set up should be Gale and Widdop, Williams should be further down the list - maybe even playing for the Knights.

In fairness look at the knights squad, it's described as the following on Wikipedia - "The Knights play a key role in the development of emerging talent, allowing players to gain experience in an international environment and to compete for a place in the England first team."

Surely Sam Powell is no longer classed as emerging talent at 26? Jack Hughes? Oli Holmes?

I get you have to have some experience but I say if they're not pushing for the England first team then that's it, we have better players available to put in this squad who given 3-4 years in the Knights squad would be first team ready come 26/27.

Why Gale? He has been invisible every time he has played for England, he has done nothing... At least Williams is trying to make something happen with ball in hand. Aside from his kicking game (Which I realise is one of the key aspects of a halves game) I thought he was quite decent yesterday in a dreadful side.

Re: Hampshire v Williams : Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:54 pm  

homme vaste wrote:

Why Gale? He has been invisible every time he has played for England, he has done nothing... At least Williams is trying to make something happen with ball in hand. Aside from his kicking game (Which I realise is one of the key aspects of a halves game) I thought he was quite decent yesterday in a dreadful side.

Because we see what he does week in week out in SL where as Williams is bang average, yes Gale seems to go missing on the big stage and that is a massive factor but he's a damn sight better than Williams overall - Gale>Williams.

[PopTart]

Re: Hampshire v Williams : Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:55 pm  

homme vaste wrote:

Sorry but Richardson is bang average at very best, if he gets anywhere near an England shirt we have massive problems.

I disagree. He is full of potential with some flaws.
He ripped us apart in one of his first games.

For me he is the kind of player being talked about here. Needs development and game time. Sts did this where other teams have not. They will benefit from this in future.
Hampshire is the same for us. Needs to play to develop. Wane did this with Williams and chose not to with Hampshire.

Re: Hampshire v Williams : Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:58 pm  

PopTart wrote:

I disagree. He is full of potential with some flaws.
He ripped us apart in one of his first games.

For me he is the kind of player being talked about here. Needs development and game time. Sts did this where other teams have not. They will benefit from this in future.
Hampshire is the same for us. Needs to play to develop. Wane did this with Williams and chose not to with Hampshire.

Exactly the type of player who IMO should be in the Knights squad following on from my previous comment, after the season he had at his age; it would be criminal not to include him for international development.

Re: Hampshire v Williams : Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:54 pm  

QwerkyCat wrote:

Exactly the type of player who IMO should be in the Knights squad following on from my previous comment, after the season he had at his age; it would be criminal not to include him for international development.

No it would not be criminal at all, after an initial 10 or so decent games for Saints he has been absolutely dreadful, If you want a real opinion on him go and talk to the Saints fans that watch him week in week out and how they are calling for him to be dropped every week for Matty Smith last season!

Every one of our four halfback options in Brough, Miller, Hampshire and Reynolds are all better than Richardson, put any of them in the Saints side last season and they would do a better job than him.

Yourself and Poptart etc are blinded by the big St Helens lights, jumping on the sky brigade.

Re: Hampshire v Williams : Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:11 pm  

homme vaste wrote:

No it would not be criminal at all, after an initial 10 or so decent games for Saints he has been absolutely dreadful, If you want a real opinion on him go and talk to the Saints fans that watch him week in week out and how they are calling for him to be dropped every week for Matty Smith last season!

Every one of our four halfback options in Brough, Miller, Hampshire and Reynolds are all better than Richardson, put any of them in the Saints side last season and they would do a better job than him.

Yourself and Poptart etc are blinded by the big St Helens lights, jumping on the sky brigade.

So on the one hand, we must develop young British SH's, to enable us to compete in future with the Aussies - but on the other hand, we advocate writing off a young British SH because after a blistering start, he faded a bit towards the end of his first full season in SL?

I admire your confidence - but your logic is faulty.

And FWIW, you're wrong - Richardson is super-talented HB, who'll be in and around SL for years to come; and I'm certain he'll play for England in the future - as he gets experience, becomes a bit more physically robust and learns to pace himself over a season, he'll only get better.

Re: Hampshire v Williams : Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:26 pm  

bren2k wrote:

So on the one hand, we must develop young British SH's, to enable us to compete in future with the Aussies - but on the other hand, we advocate writing off a young British SH because after a blistering start, he faded a bit towards the end of his first full season in SL?

I admire your confidence - but your logic is faulty.

And FWIW, you're wrong - Richardson is super-talented HB, who'll be in and around SL for years to come; and I'm certain he'll play for England in the future - as he gets experience, becomes a bit more physically robust and learns to pace himself over a season, he'll only get better.

It wasn`t towards the back end of last season though was it? Saints fans were calling for his head from about round 9 of last season, if you go back that far on there independent forum there up in arms, even though they were still blowing every team of the park at that point - What does that tell you?

Offer me Richardson over Hampshire tomorrow and I would tell you where to go, that is my honest opinion. Unlike many I can see what a player brings to a team, I can see a good player in a poor team and I can see a poor player in an outstanding team and I saw right from the off at the back end of last season with Richardson, he might show the odd piece of skill but he will never make a top half back for me.

FWIW I think you are wrong.

Re: Hampshire v Williams : Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:55 pm  

homme vaste wrote:

It wasn`t towards the back end of last season though was it? Saints fans were calling for his head from about round 9 of last season, if you go back that far on there independent forum there up in arms, even though they were still blowing every team of the park at that point - What does that tell you?

Offer me Richardson over Hampshire tomorrow and I would tell you where to go, that is my honest opinion. Unlike many I can see what a player brings to a team, I can see a good player in a poor team and I can see a poor player in an outstanding team and I saw right from the off at the back end of last season with Richardson, he might show the odd piece of skill but he will never make a top half back for me.

FWIW I think you are wrong.

Well I mean I guess if you can prove your point correct then fair enough but I'd say Saints fans seemed happy with Richardson after he orchestrated each game to ensure they won the league. I'd also side with Justin Holbrook over yourself.

Re: Hampshire v Williams : Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:02 pm  

We coulkd bring in a ruling allowing only one overseas pivot per playing side in SL, which would mean that every side would have to have 3 British (or French for Catalan) pivots in every side.
This way it would focus clubs to work much harder to develop British creative players.
Sure, the quality would reduce in the short term but, the British game has utterly ignored this area for the last 40 years and because a 2/3 choice Aussie is plenty good enough to steer a SL sides around the pitch, most clubs continue to go for the easy option rather than put the time and effort into developing their own.
This leads us nicely into the Williams situation.
So short are we on British pivots that as soon as anyone has a half decent run of games, they are talked about and/or picked for England.
Having said that, Williams wasn't to blame for yesterdays debacle, it was our lack of grunt up front.
I wonder, if the series had been level, would we have tried to bring a couple of different players in or, were changes in either squad not allowed ?