Re: Bateman leaving confirmed : Thu Dec 29, 2022 3:06 pm  

Itchy Arsenal wrote:

Itchy Arsenal wrote:

He may have played 20 games or so sticking his head in the third row of a scrum but I don't think that he played LF.
Playing a prop at LF is normally done to beef up the front row because of concerns on their ability to dominate the forward battle.. By doing so I suspect that it could reduce our attacking threat.

Smithies came on leaps and bounds last season and may yet develop into a fine LF and I hope that 2023 we will see more ball skills from him. At the time of writing he may have the 13 shirt and coming along quite nicely but he isn't a LF yet. This in itself wouldn't be a problem if we had a strong second row but unfortunately at the moment we haven't and if Farrell should get any long term injuries then we will be in a right mess.

I think the 13 you are talking about is no more at the moment to be honest.

Most teams run with middles at 13 now rather than the natural ball playing 13, with 1 taking over the play maker role.

We have been very spoilt at Wigan with great ball handling 13s up until the retirement of SOL who could do the tough stuff and also be creative.

I don’t think there is one in the game now like them, certainly not in SL.

The game has changed, maybe not for the better in that regard. I certainly don’t see Smithies suddenly developing a creative game.

Ellis at St George had a similar style to Graham when he played 13 in that he took the ball deep into the line and then found his halves with out the back plays. Not see much of that yet at Wigan from him though.

Re: Bateman leaving confirmed : Thu Dec 29, 2022 4:06 pm  

jonh wrote:

jonh wrote:

I think the 13 you are talking about is no more at the moment to be honest.

Most teams run with middles at 13 now rather than the natural ball playing 13, with 1 taking over the play maker role.

We have been very spoilt at Wigan with great ball handling 13s up until the retirement of SOL who could do the tough stuff and also be creative.

I don’t think there is one in the game now like them, certainly not in SL.

The game has changed, maybe not for the better in that regard. I certainly don’t see Smithies suddenly developing a creative game.

Ellis at St George had a similar style to Graham when he played 13 in that he took the ball deep into the line and then found his halves with out the back plays. Not see much of that yet at Wigan from him though.

I wouldn't disagree with vast majority of that Jon.

What I would say is that only a few maybe a couple of years ago I would state that Offiah wouldn't get a game in the expectations of coaches what represents a good winger. Today we have French and Marshall who are both small but flyers. Every team in SL is now looking for fast wingers rather than 17 stone metre makers. I am pretty confident that "old fashioned" loose forwards will come back into vogue but that will only occur if at scholarship levels coaches look to develop players with good ball handling skills together with a good passing game.

My concern with our pack next year is that we are undercooked in the backrow particularly the second row.
Isa, Farrell and Shorrocks are all small for a second row forward and for me we cannot afford to have more than one of these guys on the field at anyone time if we are to beat Saints in the majority matches.
Saints are the the acid test and when they beat us it is invariably because of the intensity and strength of their pack that outweighs our firepower in the backs.On paper our pack has deteriorated albeit I never thought that a Farrell/Bateman combination would give us long term success.

If Farrell gets injured for a lengthy spell I think that our season could be over. The majority of potential backrow cover is too inexperienced and too small, It was the same last season but at least we had a couple of sizable guys coming through the ranks in Nicholson and McDonnell that gave us hope of addressing the size issue. Nsemba could be the one to come through but it is asking a lot of a young guy with little or no experience in the first team.
The backrow excluding Farrell could be Isa/KPP/Smithies. Don't think we'd do particularly well with that as a starting backrow.

We have on paper resolved our centre issue and I think that Cooper for a full season is a major step up.
Having Tommy in the coaching setup I am hoping will improve the team a lot more than some people think.
I'm not disappointed that Bateman has gone just a little peeved how he strung the club on which has put us in this position.

Re: Bateman leaving confirmed : Thu Dec 29, 2022 8:40 pm  

Itchy Arsenal wrote:

Itchy Arsenal wrote:

I wouldn't disagree with vast majority of that Jon.

What I would say is that only a few maybe a couple of years ago I would state that Offiah wouldn't get a game in the expectations of coaches what represents a good winger. Today we have French and Marshall who are both small but flyers. Every team in SL is now looking for fast wingers rather than 17 stone metre makers. I am pretty confident that "old fashioned" loose forwards will come back into vogue but that will only occur if at scholarship levels coaches look to develop players with good ball handling skills together with a good passing game.

My concern with our pack next year is that we are undercooked in the backrow particularly the second row.
Isa, Farrell and Shorrocks are all small for a second row forward and for me we cannot afford to have more than one of these guys on the field at anyone time if we are to beat Saints in the majority matches.
Saints are the the acid test and when they beat us it is invariably because of the intensity and strength of their pack that outweighs our firepower in the backs.On paper our pack has deteriorated albeit I never thought that a Farrell/Bateman combination would give us long term success.

If Farrell gets injured for a lengthy spell I think that our season could be over. The majority of potential backrow cover is too inexperienced and too small, It was the same last season but at least we had a couple of sizable guys coming through the ranks in Nicholson and McDonnell that gave us hope of addressing the size issue. Nsemba could be the one to come through but it is asking a lot of a young guy with little or no experience in the first team.
The backrow excluding Farrell could be Isa/KPP/Smithies. Don't think we'd do particularly well with that as a starting backrow.

We have on paper resolved our centre issue and I think that Cooper for a full season is a major step up.
Having Tommy in the coaching setup I am hoping will improve the team a lot more than some people think.
I'm not disappointed that Bateman has gone just a little peeved how he strung the club on which has put us in this position.

I agree in regards secondrow. It’s an area of concern and from one of our strengths it’s quickly gone to one of our weaker areas of the squad.

We have thought to look who is available, if a player of the correct quality isn’t available we need to look at other areas where quality players are available in the short term.

We obviously need to be making provisions for secondrow moving into 2024 and that process I’ve no doubt will have started and been accelerated by Burgess departure.

With Isa and KPP gone after this year we are desperate to bring in 2 quality replacements for them.

Re: Bateman leaving confirmed : Thu Dec 29, 2022 9:48 pm  

jonh wrote:

jonh wrote:

I agree in regards secondrow. It’s an area of concern and from one of our strengths it’s quickly gone to one of our weaker areas of the squad.

We have thought to look who is available, if a player of the correct quality isn’t available we need to look at other areas where quality players are available in the short term.

We obviously need to be making provisions for secondrow moving into 2024 and that process I’ve no doubt will have started and been accelerated by Burgess departure.

With Isa and KPP gone after this year we are desperate to bring in 2 quality replacements for them.

Cooper and Singleton may move on as well in addition to KPP and Isa - if so some big changes to the forward pack as a whole.

Maybe Harvie Hill and Junior Nsemba can fill two of those spots but very likely we'll see a new front rower and one or two second rowers by 2024.

The ideal would be one of Tom Burgess or Luke Thompson as the front rower (not asking much there) and we'll have to use a quota spot for the 2nd rower as there are no English candidates that I can think of.

Re: Bateman leaving confirmed : Thu Dec 29, 2022 10:02 pm  

MadDogg wrote:

MadDogg wrote:

Cooper and Singleton may move on as well in addition to KPP and Isa - if so some big changes to the forward pack as a whole.

Maybe Harvie Hill and Junior Nsemba can fill two of those spots but very likely we'll see a new front rower and one or two second rowers by 2024.

The ideal would be one of Tom Burgess or Luke Thompson as the front rower (not asking much there) and we'll have to use a quota spot for the 2nd rower as there are no English candidates that I can think of.

If we are looking at english players then Whitehead would be high up on my list if he was available/interested

Re: Bateman leaving confirmed : Fri Dec 30, 2022 1:03 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

Rogues Gallery wrote:

We've got Isa, Farrell, KPP, Smithies, Shorrocks, Ellis, Havard and Nsemba who can all play second row/loose forward, no need to panic.

Edit
Add Brad O'Neil to that list, played a lot at #13 at academy level.

The big news is yet to come.

With the big news, are you speaking generally or specifically? If it's the latter then a PM would be handy

Re: Bateman leaving confirmed : Sun Jan 01, 2023 12:02 pm  

Hopefully the big news is now imminent .
Be a good day for an announcement

Re: Bateman leaving confirmed : Sun Jan 01, 2023 10:18 pm  

Itchy Arsenal wrote:

Itchy Arsenal wrote:

He may have played 20 games or so sticking his head in the third row of a scrum but I don't think that he played LF.
Playing a prop at LF is normally done to beef up the front row because of concerns on their ability to dominate the forward battle.. By doing so I suspect that it could reduce our attacking threat.

Smithies came on leaps and bounds last season and may yet develop into a fine LF and I hope that 2023 we will see more ball skills from him. At the time of writing he may have the 13 shirt and coming along quite nicely but he isn't a LF yet. This in itself wouldn't be a problem if we had a strong second row but unfortunately at the moment we haven't and if Farrell should get any long term injuries then we will be in a right mess.

yeah thats what LF does these days

Re: Bateman leaving confirmed : Sun Jan 01, 2023 10:52 pm  

Smalls wrote:

Smalls wrote:

Hopefully the big news is now imminent .
Be a good day for an announcement

or tomorrow

Re: Bateman leaving confirmed : Mon Jan 02, 2023 1:59 pm  

RG is a very reliable poster / well known fan. I hope his source is correct.