Re: Wakefield away : Mon Jul 04, 2022 4:09 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

With him banned and Dodd injured it’s pretty much a selection crisis. I just saw a Saints fan bemoaning their luck on Twitter, strong how tough they’re doing it and asking if they’ll ever be able to field a full strength team. When does anybody get to do that? It’s so so rare for every other side.

Not really. Its the constant changes in the backline that is killing us. Mock all you like but we had Hopoate, Percival, Hurrell, Dodd, LMS out on Saturday and then lost Makinson during the game, all of whom make the first choice 17.

Yes Catalans were missing a few too however they had six of their seven starting backs all playing, first choice front row and Whitley in the back row. All our injuries are mainly in the backs.

The annoying part about Saturday was that it was obvious Napa and McIllorum would receive bans (refer to tribunal and 3 games respectively) yet only Warrington will benefit. We don't, at least one should have been a red card and its the inconsistency that's annoying as earlier in the season, one or both would've walked.

You could argue that Wigan's changes have made you stronger. Certainly KPP replacing Thornley and Smith coming in are two examples where the replacements are better than the initial first choice players.

Re: Wakefield away : Mon Jul 04, 2022 4:49 pm  

Wonder if they'll start with Walmsley and Paasi to try and rack up a big lead in the opening 25. I'm surprised Woolf hasn't tried it before now - when Saints used to start with Walmsley and Thompson it would be a nightmare for their opponents.

Re: Wakefield away : Mon Jul 04, 2022 4:51 pm  

Stu M wrote:

Not really. Its the constant changes in the backline that is killing us. Mock all you like but we had Hopoate, Percival, Hurrell, Dodd, LMS out on Saturday and then lost Makinson during the game, all of whom make the first choice 17.

Yes Catalans were missing a few too however they had six of their seven starting backs all playing, first choice front row and Whitley in the back row. All our injuries are mainly in the backs.

The annoying part about Saturday was that it was obvious Napa and McIllorum would receive bans (refer to tribunal and 3 games respectively) yet only Warrington will benefit. We don't, at least one should have been a red card and its the inconsistency that's annoying as earlier in the season, one or both would've walked.

You could argue that Wigan's changes have made you stronger. Certainly KPP replacing Thornley and Smith coming in are two examples where the replacements are better than the initial first choice players.

All in jest and in the spirit of Derby week. I wouldn’t say you’ve had it tough in comparison to some teams but it’s certainly been tougher than recent seasons for you and disruptive. We’ve done the Saints injury debate to death but there’s no doubt in my mind that this season has been a poor one by Saints recent standards when it comes to injury luck but you’ve still probably one of the lesser disrupted clubs (as have we).

I don’t recall the Lees incident tbh although as I said earlier, I think he’s quite sloppy with his technique sometimes. I don’t ever think he’s dirty as such but he makes so much contact with his shoulder and when shoulder charges are banned, he does well to avoid much scrutiny. Ligi Sao at Hull FC is even worse and very rarely seems to get pinned.

Re: Wakefield away : Mon Jul 04, 2022 4:59 pm  

Stu M wrote:

Not really. Its the constant changes in the backline that is killing us. Mock all you like but we had Hopoate, Percival, Hurrell, Dodd, LMS out on Saturday and then lost Makinson during the game, all of whom make the first choice 17.

Yes Catalans were missing a few too however they had six of their seven starting backs all playing, first choice front row and Whitley in the back row. All our injuries are mainly in the backs.

The annoying part about Saturday was that it was obvious Napa and McIllorum would receive bans (refer to tribunal and 3 games respectively) yet only Warrington will benefit. We don't, at least one should have been a red card and its the inconsistency that's annoying as earlier in the season, one or both would've walked.

You could argue that Wigan's changes have made you stronger. Certainly KPP replacing Thornley and Smith coming in are two examples where the replacements are better than the initial first choice players.

To be fair though Stu, we had this conversation pre season and were mocked by some for saying our depth was better than yours. I remember FTV being quite scathing about it being average replacements for average players. Well i really don't think (as you quite rightly say) that the likes of Smith and KPP have been average or that French for Field at fullback, for example, has been average player for average player. In fact we're talking some of the best players in Superleague thus far. It's hardly surprising that some are taking the opportunity to throw a few back at (some) Saints fans.

Re: Wakefield away : Mon Jul 04, 2022 5:11 pm  

Phuzzy wrote:

To be fair though Stu, we had this conversation pre season and were mocked by some for saying our depth was better than yours. I remember FTV being quite scathing about it being average replacements for average players. Well i really don't think (as you quite rightly say) that the likes of Smith and KPP have been average or that French for Field at fullback, for example, has been average player for average player. In fact we're talking some of the best players in Superleague thus far. It's hardly surprising that some are taking the opportunity to throw a few back at (some) Saints fans.

I get it mate. We are there to be shot at no doubt. We’ve definitely lost some of the at times “invincibility” we had and the chopping and changing every week has added to that. Unless we get a settled side we’ll struggle to do the 4 in a row although admittedly we are still exceptionally hard to beat.

It’s why Roby didn’t fall for Peets praise a few weeks ago when he was fawning over Saints and said Wigan are still some way behind. They aren’t far behind at all and are more than capable of winning the comp this season.

I actually feel you’ll win on Saturday too, may have too much pace for us. That’s not to say I wouldn’t be confident in a knock out game or GF with a full side but I can see us losing a close one on Saturday.

Re: Wakefield away : Mon Jul 04, 2022 5:13 pm  

It's an absolute no-brainer not to change the spine around when we're in good form and leave things just as they are, especially for such a big game. Only point for debate here IMO is whom out of Tommy & Cust gets the bench spot. Personally (on the basis they're both fit) I'd go with Tommy. Ultimate big game player & steady head...without him we wouldn't have won the cup.

Re: Wakefield away : Mon Jul 04, 2022 5:41 pm  

ralvag wrote:

It's an absolute no-brainer not to change the spine around when we're in good form and leave things just as they are, especially for such a big game. Only point for debate here IMO is whom out of Tommy & Cust gets the bench spot. Personally (on the basis they're both fit) I'd go with Tommy. Ultimate big game player & steady head...without him we wouldn't have won the cup.

Sounds like Tommy is done for a few weeks with a calf problem but Cust may be in contention.

Re: Wakefield away : Mon Jul 04, 2022 5:41 pm  

Stu M wrote:

I get it mate. We are there to be shot at no doubt. We’ve definitely lost some of the at times “invincibility” we had and the chopping and changing every week has added to that. Unless we get a settled side we’ll struggle to do the 4 in a row although admittedly we are still exceptionally hard to beat.

It’s why Roby didn’t fall for Peets praise a few weeks ago when he was fawning over Saints and said Wigan are still some way behind. They aren’t far behind at all and are more than capable of winning the comp this season.

I actually feel you’ll win on Saturday too, may have too much pace for us. That’s not to say I wouldn’t be confident in a knock out game or GF with a full side but I can see us losing a close one on Saturday.

I think I agree - but I'll wait and see what team you put out first (and to a lesser extent, see which troops we have coming back).

I still think that with close to a fully fit squad, Saints are the best team in the league by a decent margin. I think the fact that we won the last encounter, especially in the way that we did will give you another little bit of motivation. It's real progress from a Wigan perspective though that it only takes a bad (but not horrendous) set of injuries to make us favourites, as there were times last season where it looked like we were playing different sports.

Re: Wakefield away : Mon Jul 04, 2022 5:51 pm  

ralvag wrote:

It's an absolute no-brainer not to change the spine around when we're in good form and leave things just as they are, especially for such a big game. Only point for debate here IMO is whom out of Tommy & Cust gets the bench spot. Personally (on the basis they're both fit) I'd go with Tommy. Ultimate big game player & steady head...without him we wouldn't have won the cup.

Disagree that it's a no brainer - Smith obviously is a nailed on starter now but I think you can still make a very good case for putting Field back at fullback and move French over to the wing. Harsh on Miski but it's clearly our strongest back three, and whilst Field hasn't let anyone down in the halves, it's obviously not his strongest position.

Main worry I'd have with including Cust is that he's not played since the final, but on balance I think I'd still start him if he's ready.

Re: Wakefield away : Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:59 pm  

At times last season we were missing our entire 1-5 as well as our first choice 7. For most of the season we had a SR in the centres. Nobody gave us any sympathy so don't expect any back. Saints are now going through what every club in the league has gone through every season.