Re: Latics v Burnley : Thu Jun 23, 2022 5:55 pm  

sergeant pepper wrote:

I do get what you are saying, but this is my issue on a few things - it's always IL did this, so it has to be the best way of doing it and, as such, there's no room to say the opposite.

What I'm saying is, you could give everyone on here £1m and four options on how to invest it. We'll all take different options based off how risk adverse we are.

Just because IL has all the facts, doesn't make his decision the only option. I don't know everything, that's certainly clear, but I do know that plenty of sporting teams, across a numerous sports make it work. I like to think that we could.

Myself and others aren't saying IL's way is the only way
But ultimately he's the owner, it's his Bucks that pay/prop up the club and, and I'm glad you agree, has more information and detail regarding the whole situation and is better placed to assess and make those decisions based on that detail.

our response above talks about the money aspect only and how risk averse etc. we would be to spending that money - I don't necessarily think that is the full picture financially wise but here's the thing

Would the council agree to another stadium being built? I'll pretty much guarantee they wouldn't
Where would that stadium be? What would happen to Robin Park then etc. ?
How would that affect fans who already use Robin Park not being Town centre as an excuse
Another poster said they'd rather ground share with leigh or Saints - I propose that is Grand Gesturing on a monumental stage because no way on earth is that true - We can't get 4/5k to go 8miles to watch a game - how would that work

I could go on - I won't

It's a pointless argument IMO

FWIW I am chairman of 1 x sporting organisation since 2013 and since 2014 Director amongst other roles of another (And along with 2 others run the Whole financial aspect of it).

Dragging these 2 organisations into the 21st century was hard enough 8/9 years ago - People resistant to change, people saying "You should do this, should do that, what your doing is wrong, I would do this" without putting their neck on the block and actually doing anything.
But Covid and the cost of Living crisis over the past 2 years plus is another thing

Trying to increase revenue to cover ever increasing costs whilst customers want to pay less due to the Covid issues and then cost of living crisis is a nightmare.

Both organisations IMO have been, through a lot of hard work and (Obviously I would say this) shrewd judgement come out of this in very good positions, unfortunately a lot of sporting clubs haven't and are struggling.

Maybe being in charge of 2 x clubs in the amateur sporting arena make me draw parallels to IL/KR's issues and empathise with their position more than most

But when people want you to spend more and more money whilst at the same time costs are spiralling and people want to pay less its very difficult

Wigan RL lost Millions of income in the last 2 years - There were cuts from centrally funded organisations, they took on Loans into the millions to assist them getting through these times which will need to be paid back over the next 10 years

He attempted to buy the stadium in the midst of the covid crisis - That alone tells you he's prepared to invest if the opportunity arises etc. - However spending 15million to redevelop Robin Park not withstanding the issues regarding planning permission etc. and all the things mentioned above just isn't an option IMO - The 15million wasn't for a new stadium, that would be even more even if they could get the legal stuff out the way

A Latics fan I know was gloating some 5/6 months ago about kicking us out the stadium etc. - First of all, most people get worked up about this because they want to be the ones having a go at the Latics, Let them have their little victories, that's all they are.
The reality is I told him is that if these guys are the Multi Billionaires they make out to be they won't want Little old Rugby's money will they? I mean what's a million or so per year to them?
I told Him - The reality is they aren't Billionaires and they need our money just as much as we need a stadium so in the end common sense at some point will prevail

A month or so later and it got sorted

The fixtures will be discussed, things will be sorted, some people will moan NO MATTER WHAT the outcome is, usually the ones that don't go the games and just spout Rubbish on FB or twitter.

If a game gets moved it is what it is - I'm more worried about the ones not going to games that aren't moved etc.

Re: Latics v Burnley : Thu Jun 23, 2022 5:56 pm  

sergeant pepper wrote:

I do get what you are saying, but this is my issue on a few things - it's always IL did this, so it has to be the best way of doing it and, as such, there's no room to say the opposite.

What I'm saying is, you could give everyone on here £1m and four options on how to invest it. We'll all take different options based off how risk adverse we are.

Just because IL has all the facts, doesn't make his decision the only option. I don't know everything, that's certainly clear, but I do know that plenty of sporting teams, across a numerous sports make it work. I like to think that we could.

You are aware that IL inherited this situation and didn't have anything to do with creating it?

The bar you seem to be setting for him is that if he doesn't either a) somehow acquire the DW and make Latics our tenants rather than it being the other way around, or b) build us a new stadium somewhere else in the borough at his own cost, even though the Council have refused to sign off on another one, he's failed.

Just think about that for a minute.

Good on these other sporting clubs who 'make it work' that you refer to. But I say good on IL for making it work with the current Latics ownership, who seemed to come over here recently (if they've even actually been) without even knowing what Rugby League was.

Re: Latics v Burnley : Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:04 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

Myself and others aren't saying IL's way is the only way
But ultimately he's the owner, it's his Bucks that pay/prop up the club and, and I'm glad you agree, has more information and detail regarding the whole situation and is better placed to assess and make those decisions based on that detail.

our response above talks about the money aspect only and how risk averse etc. we would be to spending that money - I don't necessarily think that is the full picture financially wise but here's the thing

Would the council agree to another stadium being built? I'll pretty much guarantee they wouldn't
Where would that stadium be? What would happen to Robin Park then etc. ?
How would that affect fans who already use Robin Park not being Town centre as an excuse
Another poster said they'd rather ground share with leigh or Saints - I propose that is Grand Gesturing on a monumental stage because no way on earth is that true - We can't get 4/5k to go 8miles to watch a game - how would that work

I could go on - I won't

It's a pointless argument IMO

FWIW I am chairman of 1 x sporting organisation since 2013 and since 2014 Director amongst other roles of another (And along with 2 others run the Whole financial aspect of it).

Dragging these 2 organisations into the 21st century was hard enough 8/9 years ago - People resistant to change, people saying "You should do this, should do that, what your doing is wrong, I would do this" without putting their neck on the block and actually doing anything.
But Covid and the cost of Living crisis over the past 2 years plus is another thing

Trying to increase revenue to cover ever increasing costs whilst customers want to pay less due to the Covid issues and then cost of living crisis is a nightmare.

Both organisations IMO have been, through a lot of hard work and (Obviously I would say this) shrewd judgement come out of this in very good positions, unfortunately a lot of sporting clubs haven't and are struggling.

Maybe being in charge of 2 x clubs in the amateur sporting arena make me draw parallels to IL/KR's issues and empathise with their position more than most

But when people want you to spend more and more money whilst at the same time costs are spiralling and people want to pay less its very difficult

Wigan RL lost Millions of income in the last 2 years - There were cuts from centrally funded organisations, they took on Loans into the millions to assist them getting through these times which will need to be paid back over the next 10 years

He attempted to buy the stadium in the midst of the covid crisis - That alone tells you he's prepared to invest if the opportunity arises etc. - However spending 15million to redevelop Robin Park not withstanding the issues regarding planning permission etc. and all the things mentioned above just isn't an option IMO - The 15million wasn't for a new stadium, that would be even more even if they could get the legal stuff out the way

A Latics fan I know was gloating some 5/6 months ago about kicking us out the stadium etc. - First of all, most people get worked up about this because they want to be the ones having a go at the Latics, Let them have their little victories, that's all they are.
The reality is I told him is that if these guys are the Multi Billionaires they make out to be they won't want Little old Rugby's money will they? I mean what's a million or so per year to them?
I told Him - The reality is they aren't Billionaires and they need our money just as much as we need a stadium so in the end common sense at some point will prevail

A month or so later and it got sorted

The fixtures will be discussed, things will be sorted, some people will moan NO MATTER WHAT the outcome is, usually the ones that don't go the games and just spout Rubbish on FB or twitter.

If a game gets moved it is what it is - I'm more worried about the ones not going to games that aren't moved etc.

Thanks for the detailed response. Plenty of food for thought (especially for me).

Re: Latics v Burnley : Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:07 pm  

Cruncher wrote:

The bar you seem to be setting for him is that if he doesn't either a) somehow acquire the DW and make Latics our tenants rather than it being the other way around, or b) build us a new stadium somewhere else in the borough at his own cost, even though the Council have refused to sign off on another one, he's failed

Please point to where I've called him a failure? He's anything, but. Doesn't mean that I have to agree on his stance re the stadium tho.

You do realise that it's perfectly ok not to agree with everything the guy does right?

Re: Latics v Burnley : Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:16 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

Myself and others aren't saying IL's way is the only way
But ultimately he's the owner, it's his Bucks that pay/prop up the club and, and I'm glad you agree, has more information and detail regarding the whole situation and is better placed to assess and make those decisions based on that detail.

our response above talks about the money aspect only and how risk averse etc. we would be to spending that money - I don't necessarily think that is the full picture financially wise but here's the thing

Would the council agree to another stadium being built? I'll pretty much guarantee they wouldn't
Where would that stadium be? What would happen to Robin Park then etc. ?
How would that affect fans who already use Robin Park not being Town centre as an excuse
Another poster said they'd rather ground share with leigh or Saints - I propose that is Grand Gesturing on a monumental stage because no way on earth is that true - We can't get 4/5k to go 8miles to watch a game - how would that work

I could go on - I won't

It's a pointless argument IMO

FWIW I am chairman of 1 x sporting organisation since 2013 and since 2014 Director amongst other roles of another (And along with 2 others run the Whole financial aspect of it).

Dragging these 2 organisations into the 21st century was hard enough 8/9 years ago - People resistant to change, people saying "You should do this, should do that, what your doing is wrong, I would do this" without putting their neck on the block and actually doing anything.
But Covid and the cost of Living crisis over the past 2 years plus is another thing

Trying to increase revenue to cover ever increasing costs whilst customers want to pay less due to the Covid issues and then cost of living crisis is a nightmare.

Both organisations IMO have been, through a lot of hard work and (Obviously I would say this) shrewd judgement come out of this in very good positions, unfortunately a lot of sporting clubs haven't and are struggling.

Maybe being in charge of 2 x clubs in the amateur sporting arena make me draw parallels to IL/KR's issues and empathise with their position more than most

But when people want you to spend more and more money whilst at the same time costs are spiralling and people want to pay less its very difficult

Wigan RL lost Millions of income in the last 2 years - There were cuts from centrally funded organisations, they took on Loans into the millions to assist them getting through these times which will need to be paid back over the next 10 years

He attempted to buy the stadium in the midst of the covid crisis - That alone tells you he's prepared to invest if the opportunity arises etc. - However spending 15million to redevelop Robin Park not withstanding the issues regarding planning permission etc. and all the things mentioned above just isn't an option IMO - The 15million wasn't for a new stadium, that would be even more even if they could get the legal stuff out the way

A Latics fan I know was gloating some 5/6 months ago about kicking us out the stadium etc. - First of all, most people get worked up about this because they want to be the ones having a go at the Latics, Let them have their little victories, that's all they are.
The reality is I told him is that if these guys are the Multi Billionaires they make out to be they won't want Little old Rugby's money will they? I mean what's a million or so per year to them?
I told Him - The reality is they aren't Billionaires and they need our money just as much as we need a stadium so in the end common sense at some point will prevail

A month or so later and it got sorted

The fixtures will be discussed, things will be sorted, some people will moan NO MATTER WHAT the outcome is, usually the ones that don't go the games and just spout Rubbish on FB or twitter.

If a game gets moved it is what it is - I'm more worried about the ones not going to games that aren't moved etc.

I think a sense of realism is coming over Latics fans now with these new owners. They’ve done a grand job to date and when they beat a couple of teams to some reasonably high profile free transfer players (by League Ones standards) and on good salaries last off season, I was amongst them wondering if they would really push the boat out in January, to firstly guarantee promotion and push the team on in to this next season and then hoped they would be extremely ambitious in this transfer window. The January Window was underwhelming and the side crept over the line for promotion and so far this off season a single player hasn’t been signed yet.

There is time yet but the signs are there that they’re certainly not cashed up enough to throw huge sums of cash around or to crack on as the sole occupants of the DW Stadium.

Re: Latics v Burnley : Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:42 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

I think a sense of realism is coming over Latics fans now with these new owners. They’ve done a grand job to date and when they beat a couple of teams to some reasonably high profile free transfer players (by League Ones standards) and on good salaries last off season, I was amongst them wondering if they would really push the boat out in January, to firstly guarantee promotion and push the team on in to this next season and then hoped they would be extremely ambitious in this transfer window. The January Window was underwhelming and the side crept over the line for promotion and so far this off season a single player hasn’t been signed yet.

There is time yet but the signs are there that they’re certainly not cashed up enough to throw huge sums of cash around or to crack on as the sole occupants of the DW Stadium.

Think it's more the fact we signed a load of players last season and people expect the same thing again. It's a Wigan thing. See the posts on here when we dare to let a player leave.

Don't think the Latics owners have ever said that they're billionaires (more people guessing and making things up to shout louder than the rest) but I wouldn't mind being a quid behind them.

Back on topic, as I always say to Latics fans, you might not like that we play at the same ground but get used to it because it won't change anytime soon.

As Jukesy says, if they move games then they move games. We have plenty of bigger issues than that we need to solve.

Re: Latics v Burnley : Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:54 pm  

Conroy! wrote:

Think it's more the fact we signed a load of players last season and people expect the same thing again. It's a Wigan thing. See the posts on here when we dare to let a player leave.

Don't think the Latics owners have ever said that they're billionaires (more people guessing and making things up to shout louder than the rest) but I wouldn't mind being a quid behind them.

As I always say to Latics fans, you might not like that we play at the same ground but get used to it because it won't change anytime soon.

Absolutely agree. There is an element of Latics fans getting restless with the lack of activity but it is harder this time as the dealings need to be more pinpoint and if these guys spend money, those deals will take longer than picking off 15-20 free transfers.

The fact stands that they’re clearly not ‘money is no object men’ as proven by the lack of activity and as you say it won’t be changing anytime soon the stadium agreement because they aren’t sat on multiple billions. It’s the reason I mentioned above about wanting both clubs to work closer together and try and help each other. Get the Saints and Preston games on Friday and Saturday, stick bands on, street food stalls, an ale festival and whatever else and market it as some sort of Wigan Spirting festival. It sounds better to be then threatening to make all the seats blue to win a popularity contest with those with the loudest voices.

Re: Latics v Burnley : Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:08 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

Conroy! wrote:

Think it's more the fact we signed a load of players last season and people expect the same thing again. It's a Wigan thing. See the posts on here when we dare to let a player leave.

Don't think the Latics owners have ever said that they're billionaires (more people guessing and making things up to shout louder than the rest) but I wouldn't mind being a quid behind them.

As I always say to Latics fans, you might not like that we play at the same ground but get used to it because it won't change anytime soon.

Absolutely agree. There is an element of Latics fans getting restless with the lack of activity but it is harder this time as the dealings need to be more pinpoint and if these guys spend money, those deals will take longer than picking off 15-20 free transfers.

The fact stands that they’re clearly not ‘money is no object men’ as proven by the lack of activity and as you say it won’t be changing anytime soon the stadium agreement because they aren’t sat on multiple billions. It’s the reason I mentioned above about wanting both clubs to work closer together and try and help each other. Get the Saints and Preston games on Friday and Saturday, stick bands on, street food stalls, an ale festival and whatever else and market it as some sort of Wigan Spirting festival. It sounds better to be then threatening to make all the seats blue to win a popularity contest with those with the loudest voices.

There's nothing I would like more for the antagonism to disappear and for everyone to start supporting the town of Wigan as a whole. Iv always thought its a shame that I never became a Wigan Athletic fan purely because of the anti rugby sentiment. I'm sure there are many more like me.

I'm not sure how realistic it is though. The obsessive nature of the hatred displayed by some of their fans borders on resembling a jealous stalker. Iv noticed on twitter how the same handful of Latics fans comment on any posts involving Wigan RL crowds (e.g. the Tottenham following or the good pre-sales for the Toulouse game) and absolutely nothing else. Nothing to do with their own club. I doubt they realise how transparent it is but it's the clearest sign of bitterness, resentment and inferiority that you will ever see. Just get a grip and support your club.

Re: Latics v Burnley : Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:38 pm  

A Friday night in the school holidays isnt much different to a Thursday night in the school holidays.

As others have said, Sky may well make this bed-wetting irrelevant by either moving the Saints game to Thursday or the Burnley game to Sunday at noon. Or they may move both!

[Wigan6/Leeds1 Andy]

Re: Latics v Burnley : Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:24 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

Any chance a Mod can lock this?

Why?