Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:14 pm Posts: 3598 Location: Watching Rugby League Member for 9 years
Wigan6/Leeds1 Andy wrote:
I hate to break this to you, but a large number of the squad for next season is also based on the squad in previous season (which hasn't won a major trophy for three seasons) - we don't sign players on a year-to-year basis. Poor recruitment and retention of players who are in the squad for next season have been in the underperforming squads over a number of seasons.
Decisions made over a number of seasons have lead to underperformance, which meant we haven't won a major trophy for three years against a backdrop of a poor competition, which will continue to have a knock-on effect on the squad moving forward. I couldn't make my opinion clearer. It's not the fans fault.
You particularly mentioned Hastings lack of replacement and Thornley replacing Gildart. Unless you can see into the future there is no way of knowing how that will pan out.
The current squad in my eyes is the 2022 squad because 2021 has gone. Again...no way of knowing how they will go on, so where did you think we would finish in 2019, 2020 and 2021?
Peter Gentle (St George’s assistant coach) worked with him at Souths the last year he was there (in 2019) and he said he just used to ride a bike or do yoga or something in the gym all week. Then they would wheel him out for captain’s run and then play him. He said that’s all he could do.
I wouldn't have kept a centre (Hank) out on loan when the alternative was to play Isa & Faz in the backs and watch our young lads getting battered.
After that, I wouldn't have resigned French. Once it was clear GB wouldn't be here, we needed a prop. I remember seeing a few rival fans on here at the start of the year saying that they couldn't believe we've not got a prop in. We instead spent the GB money on a new deal for French and Hastings.
Egg Chasing wrote:
But recruitment has been poor so you must have some ideas. Who would you have got rid of then.
Peter Gentle (St George’s assistant coach) worked with him at Souths the last year he was there (in 2019) and he said he just used to ride a bike or do yoga or something in the gym all week. Then they would wheel him out for captain’s run and then play him. He said that’s all he could do.
I wouldn't have kept a centre (Hank) out on loan when the alternative was to play Isa & Faz in the backs and watch our young lads getting battered.
After that, I wouldn't have resigned French. Once it was clear GB wouldn't be here, we needed a prop. I remember seeing a few rival fans on here at the start of the year saying that they couldn't believe we've not got a prop in. We instead spent the GB money on a new deal for French and Hastings.
22 LEAGUE TITLES 20 CHALLENGE CUPS 4 WORLD TITLES SAYS IT ALL REALLY
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2001 12:04 pm Posts: 14278 Location: Looking for coffee and donuts Member for 21 years
Egg Chasing wrote:
You particularly mentioned Hastings lack of replacement and Thornley replacing Gildart. Unless you can see into the future there is no way of knowing how that will pan out.
The current squad in my eyes is the 2022 squad because 2021 has gone. Again...no way of knowing how they will go on, so where did you think we would finish in 2019, 2020 and 2021?
Based on the fact we have Thornley (bizarrely not officially announced even though he unofficially has) as a replacement for Gildart and Hastings so far, even though the club has known for a long time both were going, I'd don't think I'm being Nostradamus to say it doesn't look like a we've been given like for like in terms of quality replacements thus far.
I have to say it's quite bizarre to be hounded about having an opinion on something because next season hasn't happened yet. Most people can see there are huge questions about the halfback position but in your world we have to wait until next season is pretty much over before having an opinion is appropriate - very strange.
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:38 am Posts: 27159 Location: WIGAN Member for 18 years
Egg Chasing wrote:
George Williams was the replacement for Hastings. We all know that. It didn't come off and so we've had to go back to the drawing board. Field and French being injured all season and neither playing any time in the halves to see how they would fare also hasn't helped.
A professional sports club and one expected to be at the top of it’s league shouldn’t put itself in a position where they’re solely reliant on signing one player and a player we didn’t actually know was coming back to the UK until a good way through 2021. We all knew Hastings would be going well in advance of that, so what was the plan had Williams remained in Oz? Why weren’t we down the road with other targets? You have to be planning well in advance surely and have various irons in the fire. Leeds needed a half, didn’t get Williams and moved straight on to Sezer. Huddersfield wanted two and got them done months and months ago. This isn’t me slagging the club off for the sake of it, I just don’t do that but I can’t say I think they’ve handled the halfback situation well at all because I think it’s a poor show tbh.
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2002 12:57 pm Posts: 11120 Location: Much too far South Member for 20 years
Wigan6/Leeds1 Andy wrote:
Based on the fact we have Thornley (bizarrely not officially announced even though he unofficially has) as a replacement for Gildart and Hastings so far, even though the club has known for a long time both were going, I'd don't think I'm being Nostradamus to say it doesn't look like a we've been given like for like in terms of quality replacements thus far.
I have to say it's quite bizarre to be hounded about having an opinion on something because next season hasn't happened yet. Most people can see there are huge questions about the halfback position but in your world we have to wait until next season is pretty much over before having an opinion is appropriate - very strange.
From the outside looking in I believe you have been making sense.
The squad building looks to have been criminally poor in recent times and not signing a proper prop for 2021 was insanity.
That isn't hindsight talking, it was blindingly obvious. I recall a thread on here leading into the GF saying how the Wigan pack was as good as the Saints pack and Brad Singleton would walk into the Saints team and "terrorised" us etc - it was delusional. I know the comeback will be that "we were a bounce away" but it has felt to me for a good few years that the Wigan side was one struggling (admirably no doubt) to play above its level rather than fundamentally being a dangerous team. Bad luck with injuries also granted.
I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Wigan fall (further?) behind Saints/Wire/Leeds/Catalans next season - it all just feels a bit haphazard and rudderless, with some strangely public noises about managing injuries, Hardaker etc adding to that feeling.
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:14 pm Posts: 3598 Location: Watching Rugby League Member for 9 years
Wigan6/Leeds1 Andy wrote:
Based on the fact we have Thornley (bizarrely not officially announced even though he unofficially has) as a replacement for Gildart and Hastings so far, even though the club has known for a long time both were going, I'd don't think I'm being Nostradamus to say it doesn't look like a we've been given like for like in terms of quality replacements thus far.
I have to say it's quite bizarre to be hounded about having an opinion on something because next season hasn't happened yet. Most people can see there are huge questions about the halfback position but in your world we have to wait until next season is pretty much over before having an opinion is appropriate - very strange.
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:14 pm Posts: 3598 Location: Watching Rugby League Member for 9 years
FearTheVee wrote:
I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Wigan fall (further?) behind Saints/Wire/Leeds/Catalans next season - it all just feels a bit haphazard and rudderless, with some strangely public noises about managing injuries, Hardaker etc adding to that feeling.
You may be right here (again we will never know) but my point is that our supposed poor recruitment and under performing squad is tipped each season by bookies and our fans to finish in the top 2/3 and challenge for trophies. So our recruitment/squad can't be that bad??
On the other hand, if someone was to say we will struggle to make the top 4 (something someone has said ahead of next season) then by finishing 2nd in 2019, 1st (and making the GF) in 2020 and 4th in 2021 we must have over performed rather than under performed???
Personally................I do think it will be a tough season BUT if we can manage to play our best 17 for once then who knows because we haven't done that for 3 years, and our coach was dreadful.
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:38 am Posts: 27159 Location: WIGAN Member for 18 years
FearTheVee wrote:
From the outside looking in I believe you have been making sense.
The squad building looks to have been criminally poor in recent times and not signing a proper prop for 2021 was insanity.
That isn't hindsight talking, it was blindingly obvious. I recall a thread on here leading into the GF saying how the Wigan pack was as good as the Saints pack and Brad Singleton would walk into the Saints team and "terrorised" us etc - it was delusional. I know the comeback will be that "we were a bounce away" but it has felt to me for a good few years that the Wigan side was one struggling (admirably no doubt) to play above its level rather than fundamentally being a dangerous team. Bad luck with injuries also granted.
I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Wigan fall (further?) behind Saints/Wire/Leeds/Catalans next season - it all just feels a bit haphazard and rudderless, with some strangely public noises about managing injuries, Hardaker etc adding to that feeling.
I think the comeback is more likely to be ‘you’re making things up’ and that’s because you are. I certainly don’t recall people saying our pack was as good, maybe they were saying that minus Walmsley it could be and it was in the league game prior to the final. I recall the Singleton conversations differently as well. In a combined 17 at the time a good few of us was putting him in because he’d really made a difference to us when he came in and in that league game he got under the Saints players skins and did a job for us. He actually had a really strong finish to 2021 for us and I’d probably pick him in a combined 17 still tbh. I still don’t overly rate Lees/Amor.
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2001 12:04 pm Posts: 14278 Location: Looking for coffee and donuts Member for 21 years
Egg Chasing wrote:
Dodged the question again I see
If the question is predict things that have already happened in the past three seasons, it does seem a redundant question - it's almost as bizarre as saying you can't have an opinion about the squad because next season hasn't happened yet.
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:14 pm Posts: 3598 Location: Watching Rugby League Member for 9 years
Wigan6/Leeds1 Andy wrote:
If the question is predict things that have already happened in the past three seasons, it does seem a redundant question - it's almost as bizarre as saying you can't have a an opinion about the squad because next season hasn't happened yet.
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