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Re: Todays Game Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:16 pm  
Re: Todays Game
Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:16 pm  

100% Warrior wrote:
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Ruddy Duck wrote:
Smith is and always has been, a good talented player who unlike many good young scrum halves of the past has not been fortunate at Wigan to be playing with a better, more experienced and dominate pack like that of the present St Helens team which Theo Farge and now Lewis Dodd have or been doing.



A Scrum Half is only as good as the pack playing in front of him which is not the case with the present pack at Wigan and might explain the lack of attacking rugby at present.!




Ask Andy Gregory about his days at Widnes, Warrington and Wigan or Paul Deacon about his time at Bradford Bulls.


One of those rare occasions where you’re spot on
Re: Todays Game Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:03 pm  
Re: Todays Game
Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:03 pm  

User avatarPieman wrote:
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Ruddy Duck wrote:
Smith is and always has been, a good talented player who unlike many good young scrum halves of the past has not been fortunate at Wigan to be playing with a better, more experienced and dominate pack like that of the present St Helens team which Theo Farge and now Lewis Dodd have or been doing.



A Scrum Half is only as good as the pack playing in front of him which is not the case with the present pack at Wigan and might explain the lack of attacking rugby at present.!




Ask Andy Gregory about his days at Widnes, Warrington and Wigan or Paul Deacon about his time at Bradford Bulls.


but with that logic you would lose both games to certain teams all year and we know that doesnt happen
Re: Todays Game Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:20 pm  
Re: Todays Game
Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:20 pm  

nathan_rugby wrote:
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Ruddy Duck wrote:
Smith is and always has been, a good talented player who unlike many good young scrum halves of the past has not been fortunate at Wigan to be playing with a better, more experienced and dominate pack like that of the present St Helens team which Theo Farge and now Lewis Dodd have or been doing.



A Scrum Half is only as good as the pack playing in front of him which is not the case with the present pack at Wigan and might explain the lack of attacking rugby at present.!




Ask Andy Gregory about his days at Widnes, Warrington and Wigan or Paul Deacon about his time at Bradford Bulls.


Forwards don't impact Smith's passes hitting the deck or kicks out on the full though? So this post is only slightly true.

In addition, good halfbacks find a way to get involved and make things happen. Whether its through an excellent kicking game (which could negate the lack of yards in the forwards) OR linking in with forwards in our own half to stop them running at A,B,C defenders and get them a bit more out wide to run more at space/gaps. Smith also isn't doing this but it isn't confirmed whether its by choice or instruction.

Do we think Halves like Thurston or Johns would look this bad under Lam and behind the forward pack? Not at all, they would take matters into their own hands to make things happen. I am not for one minute comparing, those two to Smith, but some portion of his form/quality is down to him, it cannot all be attributed to external factors.
Re: Todays Game Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:51 pm  
Re: Todays Game
Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:51 pm  

100% Warrior wrote:
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nathan_rugby wrote:
Forwards don't impact Smith's passes hitting the deck or kicks out on the full though? So this post is only slightly true.

In addition, good halfbacks find a way to get involved and make things happen. Whether its through an excellent kicking game (which could negate the lack of yards in the forwards) OR linking in with forwards in our own half to stop them running at A,B,C defenders and get them a bit more out wide to run more at space/gaps. Smith also isn't doing this but it isn't confirmed whether its by choice or instruction.

Do we think Halves like Thurston or Johns would look this bad under Lam and behind the forward pack? Not at all, they would take matters into their own hands to make things happen. I am not for one minute comparing, those two to Smith, but some portion of his form/quality is down to him, it cannot all be attributed to external factors.


No they wouldn’t but equally at 21 years of age they weren’t expected to carry a poorly coached side in what is his first full season. The lads still finding his feet at this level and isn’t being helped with some poor coaching. He looks lost and totally empty of confidence which is a stark difference from when he came on to the scene.

Honestly, I think you’re being really unfair.
Re: Todays Game Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:44 pm  
Re: Todays Game
Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:44 pm  
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100% Warrior wrote:
No they wouldn’t but equally at 21 years of age they weren’t expected to carry a poorly coached side in what is his first full season. The lads still finding his feet at this level and isn’t being helped with some poor coaching. He looks lost and totally empty of confidence which is a stark difference from when he came on to the scene.

Honestly, I think you’re being really unfair.


I was listening to Cooper Cronk talk about Sam Walker and CC said that when he 1st broke into the side he was told that, as young HB, all he needs to do is make his tackles and nail his kicks.

I can't honestly say that Smith is doing either.

I like the kid and not writing him off, but he needs a big off season and start to 2022 imo.
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Re: Todays Game Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:36 pm  
Re: Todays Game
Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:36 pm  

100% Warrior wrote:
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sergeant pepper wrote:
I was listening to Cooper Cronk talk about Sam Walker and CC said that when he 1st broke into the side he was told that, as young HB, all he needs to do is make his tackles and nail his kicks.

I can't honestly say that Smith is doing either.

I like the kid and not writing him off, but he needs a big off season and start to 2022 imo.


I completely agree with that assessment. 2022 could be make or break for Smith but equally his development has been hindered by poor coaching and poor personnel. I think some are being extremely unfair to him purely because he was banded about as the next big thing in the academy. You don’t just lose that level of talent.
Re: Todays Game Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:48 pm  
Re: Todays Game
Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:48 pm  
sergeant pepper User avatar
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100% Warrior wrote:
I completely agree with that assessment. 2022 could be make or break for Smith but equally his development has been hindered by poor coaching and poor personnel. I think some are being extremely unfair to him purely because he was banded about as the next big thing in the academy. You don’t just lose that level of talent.


Undoubtedly there's a lot who are quick to write him off. We've had that problem for years tho, so hopefully both those in charge & Smith don't listen.

I've just read an article in the MEN about Miller and it was interesting to read that Smith leads the league in attacking kicks https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/jacob-miller-wigan-warriors-wakefield-21580532

Stats aren't obviously everything and I wouldn't say he's a top draw kicker by any means, but I still do think there's a good player in there. I'm happy he's here and I'm excited to see how he'll develop.
100% Warrior wrote:
I completely agree with that assessment. 2022 could be make or break for Smith but equally his development has been hindered by poor coaching and poor personnel. I think some are being extremely unfair to him purely because he was banded about as the next big thing in the academy. You don’t just lose that level of talent.


Undoubtedly there's a lot who are quick to write him off. We've had that problem for years tho, so hopefully both those in charge & Smith don't listen.

I've just read an article in the MEN about Miller and it was interesting to read that Smith leads the league in attacking kicks https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/jacob-miller-wigan-warriors-wakefield-21580532

Stats aren't obviously everything and I wouldn't say he's a top draw kicker by any means, but I still do think there's a good player in there. I'm happy he's here and I'm excited to see how he'll develop.
Last edited by sergeant pepper on Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Todays Game Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:24 pm  
Re: Todays Game
Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:24 pm  

100% Warrior wrote:
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sergeant pepper wrote:
Undoubtedly there's a lot who are quick to wrote him off. We've had that problem for years tho, so hopefully both those in charge & Smith don't listen.

I've just read an article in the MEN about Miller and it was interesting to read that Smith leads the league in attacking kicks https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/jacob-miller-wigan-warriors-wakefield-21580532

Stats aren't obviously everything and I wouldn't say he's a top draw kicker by any means, but I still do think there's a good player in there. I'm happy he's here and I'm excited to see how he'll develop.


+1
sergeant pepper wrote:
Undoubtedly there's a lot who are quick to wrote him off. We've had that problem for years tho, so hopefully both those in charge & Smith don't listen.

I've just read an article in the MEN about Miller and it was interesting to read that Smith leads the league in attacking kicks https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/jacob-miller-wigan-warriors-wakefield-21580532

Stats aren't obviously everything and I wouldn't say he's a top draw kicker by any means, but I still do think there's a good player in there. I'm happy he's here and I'm excited to see how he'll develop.


+1
Re: Todays Game Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:34 pm  
Re: Todays Game
Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:34 pm  

User avatarjonh wrote:
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sergeant pepper wrote:
I was listening to Cooper Cronk talk about Sam Walker and CC said that when he 1st broke into the side he was told that, as young HB, all he needs to do is make his tackles and nail his kicks.

I can't honestly say that Smith is doing either.

I like the kid and not writing him off, but he needs a big off season and start to 2022 imo.


That’s the worry. He is getting the very basic aspects of play wrong.

Absolutely agree regarding next year. It is huge in regards his career.
Unofficially the most boring poster on Cherry and White.
Re: Todays Game Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:59 pm  
Re: Todays Game
Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:59 pm  
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I’ve got to be honest, I can’t recall seeing a half back for a top team with such a poor passing game as Smith.
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