Re: 98 season : Sun May 24, 2020 4:51 pm  

Not all those Bradford players were there at the same time...Henry Paul never played with Vainikolo or Hape. They had Spruce, McAvoy, Brooker, Costin, Harris (Ben and Iestyn) in there at various times.

I think Hape was the best, he was maybe underrated, and he missed some long spells with injury.

Vainikolo...not as good as Tuigamala. He was a juggernaut when in full flow but he could be targeted too with teams putting kicks on the ground behind him, he was slow and could be clumsy on the turn.

But in the final third of that last Grand Final winning season, in 2005, the Hape-Vainikolo combination was unstoppable. They were savaging teams like Miles and Offiah.

St Helens had a good back line at the time as well, with Wellens, Albert, Lyon, Talau and Gardner.

Re: 98 season : Sun May 24, 2020 4:54 pm  

sally cinnamon wrote:

Not all those Bradford players were there at the same time...Henry Paul never played with Vainikolo or Hape.

Well there's my dodgy memory for ya. Deacon would have been in the halves though you're right.

Re: 98 season : Sun May 24, 2020 5:36 pm  

sally cinnamon wrote:

Not all those Bradford players were there at the same time...Henry Paul never played with Vainikolo or Hape. They had Spruce, McAvoy, Brooker, Costin, Harris (Ben and Iestyn) in there at various times.

I think Hape was the best, he was maybe underrated, and he missed some long spells with injury.

Vainikolo...not as good as Tuigamala. He was a juggernaut when in full flow but he could be targeted too with teams putting kicks on the ground behind him, he was slow and could be clumsy on the turn.

But in the final third of that last Grand Final winning season, in 2005, the Hape-Vainikolo combination was unstoppable. They were savaging teams like Miles and Offiah.

St Helens had a good back line at the time as well, with Wellens, Albert, Lyon, Talau and Gardner.

Inga and Robinson were better, again with the saints team none were better man for man than that Wigan back line

Re: 98 season : Sun May 24, 2020 5:48 pm  

On Henry Paul....how good do you think he was, really?

I have never made my mind up on whether he was just very good (eg Robbie) or absolute world class.

He had a bit of Cristiano Ronaldo about him, in that he wasn't just content to be a ball playing talent, but developed a rock solid physique, made sure there weren't really any flaws in his game. He also had that swaggering arrogance.

Was his departure for Bradford the key factor that tipped the balance away from Wigan to Bradford over the next few years?

It seemed to weaken Wigan a lot when HP left, but Bradford seemed to take it in their stride when he left them. Maybe the way they were winning games meant that they were less reliant on a great 6. And also was why it was a bad business decision for them a few years later to tie so much of the salary cap in bringing Iestyn Harris in.

When Jon Dorahy was at Wire, he seemed to be searching for a Henry Paul for us. He brought two young New Zealanders over: Toa Kohe-Love and Nigel Vagana, who were both billed as "the next Henry Paul" when we signed them. They both ended up being good players although centres rather than the stand-offs they were talked of as when we signed them. I think NV played stand-off in the game after Dorahy had been sacked when we beat Wigan (he got a hat-trick).

Re: 98 season : Mon May 25, 2020 9:11 am  

one of the most naturally gifted players i've ever seen, remember being at central park on a cold wednesday night and he murdered us on his own for wakefield, you could see then how good he was at 19

Re: 98 season : Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:34 pm  

sally cinnamon wrote:

On Henry Paul....how good do you think he was, really?

I have never made my mind up on whether he was just very good (eg Robbie) or absolute world class.

He had a bit of Cristiano Ronaldo about him, in that he wasn't just content to be a ball playing talent, but developed a rock solid physique, made sure there weren't really any flaws in his game. He also had that swaggering arrogance.

Was his departure for Bradford the key factor that tipped the balance away from Wigan to Bradford over the next few years?

It seemed to weaken Wigan a lot when HP left, but Bradford seemed to take it in their stride when he left them. Maybe the way they were winning games meant that they were less reliant on a great 6. And also was why it was a bad business decision for them a few years later to tie so much of the salary cap in bringing Iestyn Harris in.

When Jon Dorahy was at Wire, he seemed to be searching for a Henry Paul for us. He brought two young New Zealanders over: Toa Kohe-Love and Nigel Vagana, who were both billed as "the next Henry Paul" when we signed them. They both ended up being good players although centres rather than the stand-offs they were talked of as when we signed them. I think NV played stand-off in the game after Dorahy had been sacked when we beat Wigan (he got a hat-trick).

I think Henry Paul was at his best when he first joined Wigan. He was like a ghost moving across the field and he scored his best tries in those first couple of seasons. In his last couple of years he seemed to lose a bit of spark, still a great player but not quite as dangerous. Then he joined Bradford and seemed to recapture his form.

I have fond memories of Paul always scoring tries against Saints, usually ones that sealed the game for us. He could be very quiet in a game and then just step forward and ghost through the defence.

He was certainly the most stylish player ive ever watched. Almost everytime he took the ball to the line he looked to spin out of the tackle. His balance was superb, almost like he was floating in zero gravity at times.

He was world class but not in an orthodox way. He had a unique style and way of playing the game that ive not seen before or since.

Re: 98 season : Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:44 am  

Pieman wrote:

one of the most naturally gifted players i've ever seen, remember being at central park on a cold wednesday night and he murdered us on his own for wakefield, you could see then how good he was at 19

Correct, a outstanding talented player just like his brother Robbie.