Re: Gildart : Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:32 pm  

Instead of inserting implants that Pump up".
Couldn't we insert implants of sort with zips on so that before they played could unzip them and put Titanium plates in.
The zips could be incorporated into the skin of the players with pockets inside to hold the plates?

PS

I've tried arguing
I've tried ignoring
Now I'm just playing along.

Re: Gildart : Fri Nov 29, 2019 2:31 am  

The_Enforcer wrote:

You're missing the point. If the implants could be manufactured from a substance that adds weight then a smaller guy that already runs well above his current weight could then play prop. Dan Sarginson is an example. If he was carrying and extra stone or two into a collision he would then be harder to stop and take more juice from defenders. I am not claiming the implants will add strength but who knows what the future could hold in that department. We could even see players be subbed, pumped up or deflated via a valve and then re-enter the game in a different position to cover for injury etc. After the game, a trained technician could deflate the implants so the player is not carrying the extra size and weight whilst going about their daily lives.

I'm not missing your point, you're ignoring fundamental facts about physiology to propose a theory which is dead in the water the second you actually look at how the body works.

Lets break down exactly what you propose;
- Silicone implants - They would increase the size of the player, I can't dispute that. They would add nothing to the body from an athletic perspective hence why people with breast or buttock implants are not all of a sudden champion pressers or squatters. They may have an impact reduction purpose, but so do pads worn as an item of clothing, that can be removed at the end of a game or session. It's also been shown in Boxing and American Football that impact reduction causes more injuries. So what you propose is to permanently scar the body and put implants into the skin for no more gain than padded clothing would give.

- Using a different material to silicone - You propose rather than silicone, a weighted substance can be used, to temporarily and artificially increase the weight of the player. This will put the player at a disadvantage, not an advantage. A centre with a natural 100kg frame now has to run around with 12kg (2 stone) extra weight that his musculoskeletal system has not adapted to. That's a 12% increase too where an experienced lifter is probably going to be making closer to a 1% increase in weight lifted each time. The reason why athletes wear weight vests is to put the body at a mechanical disadvantage to give it stimulus to grow stronger. You also significantly increase the change of injuries at the joints. Go for a run, then a few days later do it with a weight vest on and come back and tell me it was just as easy as running without it.

- Valves - To be clear, not only are you proposing to scar the body (all over to cover all the muscles on the body which need to grow) you're also proposing to put valves on the outside of the skin so that the volume can be changed? I really hope I don't need to explain why no player would ever agree to this, when you consider the above that there's no athletic benefit to them. Something you almost certainly wouldn't have considered is the impact on the skin itself. Very few big strong people have gotten away with stretch marks, and that's with their muscles growing a very small rate, several months/years. Imagine what it would do to the skin if you were to say, increase your chest size by several inches in the space of seconds or minutes, only to be deflated again by the same amount after max, 80 minutes. That's a recipe for some nasty skin issues.

- You have also mentioned that you believe there may be breakthroughs in a substance that can make the player stronger. That already exists; the Nazis proposed it, the Soviets perfected it and they're called performance enhancing drugs. Anabolic steroids (usually a synthetic testosterone) or human growth hormone. They're banned in sports. They are the only thing that will cause a players body to grow bigger and stronger. There is no magical other chemical out there. Our body responds to these two things, that's how we have evolved. It's either one of those banned substances or it doesn't exist.

Please also don't disregard the cancelling out that happens when every team in the league is doing it. So you have your players permanently disfigured (with valves over every muscle!) for no athletic gain in and of itself and also because your opponent is doing the same.

It's clear you don't know how this all works, and I don't expect people to either however instead of acknowledging that you have doubled down on it and accused others of "missing the point". I've addressed every element of what you think to be true with why it is not. This isn't a difference of opinion, this is fact backed by evidence in the form of every human being (and most animals) on the planet. There are certain truths you have had to ignore to get to where you have. It is a ridiculous idea and I truly believe you know that, but I am happy to continue the discussion, although some other posters may get bored.

Re: Gildart : Fri Nov 29, 2019 7:24 am  

I'm not bored
Its cheering me up no end!

Just remember though hes only on the wind up, isnt he?
Surely it must be?
Yeah course it is, how silly of me, how could he possibly be trying to be serious.

But then again

Re: Gildart : Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:38 am  

This is fantastic. MOD's please sticky this thread so we can come back to it whenever we need cheering up!

Re: Gildart : Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:17 am  

secondstanza wrote:

I'm not missing your point, you're ignoring fundamental facts about physiology to propose a theory which is dead in the water the second you actually look at how the body works.

Lets break down exactly what you propose;
- Silicone implants - They would increase the size of the player, I can't dispute that. They would add nothing to the body from an athletic perspective hence why people with breast or buttock implants are not all of a sudden champion pressers or squatters. They may have an impact reduction purpose, but so do pads worn as an item of clothing, that can be removed at the end of a game or session. It's also been shown in Boxing and American Football that impact reduction causes more injuries. So what you propose is to permanently scar the body and put implants into the skin for no more gain than padded clothing would give.

- Using a different material to silicone - You propose rather than silicone, a weighted substance can be used, to temporarily and artificially increase the weight of the player. This will put the player at a disadvantage, not an advantage. A centre with a natural 100kg frame now has to run around with 12kg (2 stone) extra weight that his musculoskeletal system has not adapted to. That's a 12% increase too where an experienced lifter is probably going to be making closer to a 1% increase in weight lifted each time. The reason why athletes wear weight vests is to put the body at a mechanical disadvantage to give it stimulus to grow stronger. You also significantly increase the change of injuries at the joints. Go for a run, then a few days later do it with a weight vest on and come back and tell me it was just as easy as running without it.

- Valves - To be clear, not only are you proposing to scar the body (all over to cover all the muscles on the body which need to grow) you're also proposing to put valves on the outside of the skin so that the volume can be changed? I really hope I don't need to explain why no player would ever agree to this, when you consider the above that there's no athletic benefit to them. Something you almost certainly wouldn't have considered is the impact on the skin itself. Very few big strong people have gotten away with stretch marks, and that's with their muscles growing a very small rate, several months/years. Imagine what it would do to the skin if you were to say, increase your chest size by several inches in the space of seconds or minutes, only to be deflated again by the same amount after max, 80 minutes. That's a recipe for some nasty skin issues.

- You have also mentioned that you believe there may be breakthroughs in a substance that can make the player stronger. That already exists; the Nazis proposed it, the Soviets perfected it and they're called performance enhancing drugs. Anabolic steroids (usually a synthetic testosterone) or human growth hormone. They're banned in sports. They are the only thing that will cause a players body to grow bigger and stronger. There is no magical other chemical out there. Our body responds to these two things, that's how we have evolved. It's either one of those banned substances or it doesn't exist.

Please also don't disregard the cancelling out that happens when every team in the league is doing it. So you have your players permanently disfigured (with valves over every muscle!) for no athletic gain in and of itself and also because your opponent is doing the same.

It's clear you don't know how this all works, and I don't expect people to either however instead of acknowledging that you have doubled down on it and accused others of "missing the point". I've addressed every element of what you think to be true with why it is not. This isn't a difference of opinion, this is fact backed by evidence in the form of every human being (and most animals) on the planet. There are certain truths you have had to ignore to get to where you have. It is a ridiculous idea and I truly believe you know that, but I am happy to continue the discussion, although some other posters may get bored.

You are talking about the present. I am talking about the future. I agree that it cant be done at present but what if future technology allows for a special tablet that can be taken an hour before games and gives an instant increase in strength and speed? Then you have the implants to increase weight and size. Player is pumped up and then plays the game with the tablet in the system and then after the game the tablet wears off and player is deflated. I get the problems with skin etc but again, you are thinking the here and now. I am talking about the future and what could be possible with breakthroughs.

If 100 years ago i had told you there would be driverless cars, your reaction would of been the same, to dismiss it but now its very close to reality.

Re: Gildart : Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:20 am  

100% Warrior wrote:

Sarginson carries extra weight, Sarginson slows down, isn’t as powerful and therefore isn’t as effective.

This suggestion is ludicrous and your response to a post from a clearly well educated and knows what they’re talking about poster was as ignorant as they come because your point had already been dissected and dismissed but you ignored it as usual.

Are you always this miserable and closed minded?

Im am simply throwing an idea out there based on future technology that may or may never be invented. Lighten up a bit instead of constantly moaning.

Re: Gildart : Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:23 am  

MattyB wrote:

This is fantastic. MOD's please sticky this thread so we can come back to it whenever we need cheering up!

You never know, in 100 years people may come back to this thread and i may be hailed as a genius! They may even name the implants after me. Enforcer Implants sounds good.

Re: Gildart : Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:36 am  

The_Enforcer wrote:

Are you always this miserable and closed minded?

Im am simply throwing an idea out there based on future technology that may or may never be invented. Lighten up a bit instead of constantly moaning.

One day I’m a “happy clapper” and the next a miserable, closed minded constant moaner. Which is it? I can’t be both.

You’ll find I can be very open minded but the idea is ludicrous and doubling down on it more so.

Re: Gildart : Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:48 pm  

The_Enforcer wrote:

50 years ago, if id of told you people would be able to have fully functioning artificial limbs, you would of all reacted in the same way. All technology seemed impossible and even sometimes crazy before it became a reality

The first confirmed use of a prosthetic device is from 950–710 BC.

Re: Gildart : Sat Nov 30, 2019 1:21 pm  

The_Enforcer wrote:

You are talking about the present. I am talking about the future. I agree that it cant be done at present but what if future technology allows for a special tablet that can be taken an hour before games and gives an instant increase in strength and speed? Then you have the implants to increase weight and size. Player is pumped up and then plays the game with the tablet in the system and then after the game the tablet wears off and player is deflated. I get the problems with skin etc but again, you are thinking the here and now. I am talking about the future and what could be possible with breakthroughs.

If 100 years ago i had told you there would be driverless cars, your reaction would of been the same, to dismiss it but now its very close to reality.

A special tablet. Will that get past WADA? Don't tell Gabe Hamlin, he'll want one.

In 100 years we will have probably invented time travel, so wouldn't it be easier to snatch Boston, Hanley, Gregory, Edwards, Kenny, Robinson, Farrell all in their mid twenties from the past and put them into a Wigan super team.

We could rename the club Wigan Wormhole Warriors.

Hope they build this time machine (maybe they can hook it up to the church clock tower behind the bees knees).

Pity we won't be around to see Wigan Wormhole Warriors versus Venus Vikings, Mars Mauraders, Jupiter Jiants and Leigh Centurions.