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Re: Lam as Coach
Post Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:06 pm
Posted by Last Son of Wigan on Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:06 pm
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NickyKiss wrote:
It’s extremely debatable to say our three key players were replaced with quality players. It’s fair enough comparing the talents of Tomkins and Hardaker but Sutton for Bullock has proved to be a step down (that’s not a criticism of Bullocks who’s raw and has loads of improvement in him) and we didn’t replace Bateman really, with Greenwood coming in for Joel Tomkins.

I still think Lam has got things to prove and he’ll have no excuses next season for not achieving success but you can’t do anything but admire this turnaround.


I mentioned Bateman...he's class, we didn't replace him with the same standard, don't think we ever could really. But at the time of the signings we brought in Hardaker, former MOS and quality for Sam, Greenwood, played for Saints and has NRL experience at a very young age, at the time of the signing it couldn't be disputed that Greenwood was a quality signing. Greenwood was always going to be Bateman's replacement. If you remember initially he was going to be coming in for this season to replace Bateman, not Joel. Joel originally wasn't set to go anywhere until his drunken rant at a barmaid in St Andish. This freed up space to allow Joe to arrive earlier.

Nevertheless clubs lose talent all the time, did Leeds really replace Sinfield and Peacock with equal talent? No. It can't always happen, it's part of team sport.
Re: Lam as Coach
Post Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:07 pm
Posted by Last Son of Wigan on Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:07 pm
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Wigan Peer wrote:
Seems like he is fulfilling his remit then :)


Nothing like a bit of 'paraphrasing' ;)
But like I said, we are second and we are winning... facts are facts.
Re: Lam as Coach
Post Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:14 pm
Posted by Itchy Arsenal on Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:14 pm
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Last Son of Wigan wrote:
Still not fully convinced.
I don't know why people are saying AL inherited a mess, he didn't, he inherited a championship winning side with 3 key players departing who were all replaced with quality. are the departures better than the arrivals debatable, without a doubt Bateman is a loss, but teams loss quality consistently at the end of each season; difference is Lam inherited a team capable of winning the GF.

I don't see how the Edwards situation was of any impact apart from paper talk and the embarrassment the club faced a coaching U turn. I could never cite that alone as a reason for such poor play.

Throughout this season we've been very inconsistent. We were sloppy and losing early on, now we're still sloppy yet finding enough to beat poorer teams. I still think we've only had 1 complete performance over 80 mins this season, even the win v Wire a few weeks back showed a second half were our team made less meters, conceded more pens, had less percentage of the play and were out-scored.

Take the weekend just gone... that wasn't a strong performance at all. Was penaltzxy filled opening in a back and forth game without either team looking impressive. Some good some great individual moments (Marshall for example) but hardly a great team performance.

But... we are winning. We're second in the table. We're looking stronger in D and we still have key players missing. We're in a very good position to really make a good run at the GF, and hopefully really make a mark and defend our title with real fight.

6 out of 10 so far for the season over all.

I also will say this, for those out there who regularly watch the NRL will understand how poor the standards in SL have gotten. I don't think it's Saints who are a particularly outstanding RL team, I think the overall standard of RL is very low.
NRL looks way faster, the players look fitter, run harder, ball movement is slick and precise, over here there's a lot of players who simply aren't good enough.


Agree with virtually all of that.

From the low of Barcelona we have improved and for that I'm very grateful but we are still way short of being a very good team.

The present squad struggles to make good yards on a consistent basis and when we eventually play Saints in the playoffs this will come home to bite.

Next season will be very interesting and if Lam can improve our 6th tackle options and our kicking game then we may see how good Lam actually is.

I for one didn't expect too much this season so making the playoffs is a genuine bonus for me after our awful start.
Re: Lam as Coach
Post Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:34 pm
Posted by Orrell Lad on Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:34 pm
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I’ve been fairly pragmatic about the whole situation and was willing to cut them some slack, accepting that this was always going to be a transitional season. We’ve had plenty of success lately, so I think they have earned the right to swerve a little criticism. My concerns have always been more about the off-field issues than onfield.

Having said that, we have somehow managed to battle ourselves into a great position to defend our title and it doesn’t matter if some of the wins have been ugly. They have found a way and next season is looking up too.

Said it many times, if we get to that GF - assuming we play Saints there - they will absolutely sh.it themselves against us. Lam 7/10 if we finish 2nd in the table and mayor of Wigan if he wins the title :)
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Re: Lam as Coach
Post Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:20 am
Posted by Phuzzy on Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:20 am
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Last Son of Wigan wrote:
I mentioned Bateman...he's class, we didn't replace him with the same standard, don't think we ever could really. But at the time of the signings we brought in Hardaker, former MOS and quality for Sam, Greenwood, played for Saints and has NRL experience at a very young age, at the time of the signing it couldn't be disputed that Greenwood was a quality signing. Greenwood was always going to be Bateman's replacement. If you remember initially he was going to be coming in for this season to replace Bateman, not Joel. Joel originally wasn't set to go anywhere until his drunken rant at a barmaid in St Andish. This freed up space to allow Joe to arrive earlier.

Nevertheless clubs lose talent all the time, did Leeds really replace Sinfield and Peacock with equal talent? No. It can't always happen, it's part of team sport.

Wouldn't you consider Leeds as a good example of what a detrimental effect losing players can have, rather than showing it should be business as usual? Had they remained successful I would agree with the point but surely this particular example doesn't support your point, unless I'm missing something of course?
Re: Lam as Coach
Post Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:05 am
Posted by Last Son of Wigan on Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:05 am
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Phuzzy wrote:
Wouldn't you consider Leeds as a good example of what a detrimental effect losing players can have, rather than showing it should be business as usual? Had they remained successful I would agree with the point but surely this particular example doesn't support your point, unless I'm missing something of course?


You make a fair point. However I feel the void between the players Leeds lost to who they brought in was way bigger. Sinfield was the brains of the team, at times it's well documented how took team talks at the discrepancy of McDermott. He was their leader.
Peacock was the heart and guts of the team, drove them forward with his own brand of leadership, add Kylie into the mix and they lost a lot of their identity.

If we'd have lost say... Lockers, Sam and Flower then it would have been a fair comparison.

I'm not completely slamming Lam, not at all. We're second, we're winning games and I feel there's level of optimism around the club which is most welcomed by all.
I'm considering all aspects of his performance as head coach in 2019 so far.

Still a good chance to be in and win the GF this season. If this happens... I'll up my score to 10/10 with a big smile on my face :)
Re: Lam as Coach
Post Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:52 am
Posted by Cherry_&_White on Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:52 am
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Last Son of Wigan wrote:
You make a fair point. However I feel the void between the players Leeds lost to who they brought in was way bigger. Sinfield was the brains of the team, at times it's well documented how took team talks at the discrepancy of McDermott. He was their leader.
Peacock was the heart and guts of the team, drove them forward with his own brand of leadership, add Kylie into the mix and they lost a lot of their identity.

If we'd have lost say... Lockers, Sam and Flower then it would have been a fair comparison.

I'm not completely slamming Lam, not at all. We're second, we're winning games and I feel there's level of optimism around the club which is most welcomed by all.
I'm considering all aspects of his performance as head coach in 2019 so far.

Still a good chance to be in and win the GF this season. If this happens... I'll up my score to 10/10 with a big smile on my face :)


Agree that the legacy left to Lam was probably not as severe as some might have made out - at least in terms of the squad. Something that Lam deserves big credit for is the way in which he's found a way to get us competitive using a (weakened) Wane team whilst trying to move away from Wane's brand of Rugby.

I was nervous about anyone replacing Wane, who had his fingerprints on almost every aspect of the club. A less canny coach may have gone too quickly in changing styles and run the risk of losing the good aspects of how we play whilst at the same time not having the players able to win whilst playing scintillating attacking rugby.

He definitely hasn't been continuity Wane, but he's been pragmatic and he's found a way to win with various selection issues thrown his way which any coach would've struggled with. I'm much happier having him in post than I was at the start of this season, so I suppose that's probably the best endorsement I can give him. 7.5-8/10 for me, full marks is we can win at Old Trafford!
Re: Lam as Coach
Post Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:05 am
Posted by Rogues Gallery on Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:05 am
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Sport goes in cycles. I remember the great Wigan side of the 1960's and then Boston, Ashton and McTigue retired, irreplaceable.
Look at Widnes when they lost Davies, Offiah, Devereux, Gregory, Tait etc
Then Saints when Long, Cunningham, Sculthorpe etc retired/left.
Leeds lost Sinfield, Peacock, Leuluai, Burrow etc.
It's very hard to replace class players.
Wigan have been very good at bringing young players through, the best academy system in rugby league. However I don't think outside recruitment has been as good as it should, oh for another "find" like George Carmont.
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Re: Lam as Coach
Post Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:11 am
Posted by FearTheVee on Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:11 am
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Serious question - have you really moved away from Wane's "brand of rugby".

I see very little difference in approach at all, but clearly don't see you play anything like as much as those on this forum.
Re: Lam as Coach
Post Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:14 am
Posted by Cherry_&_White on Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:14 am
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FearTheVee wrote:
Serious question - have you really moved away from Wane's "brand of rugby".

I see very little difference in approach at all, but clearly don't see you play anything like as much as those on this forum.


Bits and pieces. Williams isn't limited just to the left hand side now. Powell has been running more from Dummy half. It's been pretty gradual through necessity if we're being honest. The squad is in the main still Wane's, only weaker, so I'd expect to see a bigger difference next season. There is a difference though.
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