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Re: Lam to stay on in 2020 Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:24 pm  

User avatarShortArse wrote:
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So despite the salary cap, RL is still in a position where the teams that can afford to lose the most can win the most?

Wolves lost 260k in 2016 and 70k in 2017

Leeds make money but that's at the expense of spending on the team - and that is showing with their league positions once the golden generation retired.

Hull FC ground share in a council stadium.
Cas make money but havent won anything
Giants debts are £10M more than their assets

Hull KR? Salford? London? Wakefield? no financial cures there

all very worrying.
Ah, good taste!
What a dreadful thing!
Taste is the enemy of creativeness.

Pablo Picasso
Re: Lam to stay on in 2020 Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:52 pm  

User avatarhatty wrote:
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Wigg'n wrote:
What do you mean 'assets to rescue them'?

Not to rescue as such, more of a remortgage
1998,2010,2013,2016 & 2018.....I was there
Re: Lam to stay on in 2020 Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:39 am  

User avatarFearTheVee wrote:
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Rogues Gallery wrote:
Since Saints moved into their new stadium they have lost £7,996 million. In the same period Wigan lost £1,613 million.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... ng-history

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... ng-history


Classic RG spin :)

Here's another way of looking at it chap:
- The losses you quote for Saints include big depreciation charges (approx £500k p.a.) for a stadium that has been fully paid for whilst the club remains debt free;
- Early teething problems at the stadium (hospitality/catering etc subsequently taken in house, cladding-gate etc) led to chunky losses in early years, but after adjusting for depreciation, Saints made an opeprating profit in both 2015 and 2016 - we didn't make a final in either year. Wigan lost about £650k by the same measure in 2016 alone despite winning SL
- 2017 was a difficult one and a loss of c.£0.7m was made as lots of changes made and costs incurred (KC and some associated staff leaving mid-contract, connection lost between club and town) HOWEVER McManus has advised he expects us to be back in profit for 2018 without a final appearance. We will know soon enough as the accounts are due shortly. In 2017 Wigan lost £450k-ish despite winning the WCC and making (and profitably losing) the Challenge Cup Final.
- After recent conversion of shareholder loans to equity, Saints have a positive net asset position of £22m and no debt. Wigan are balance sheet insolvent with minimal assets, owe c.£1m to the Bank and c.£6m to Lenagan - hopefully neither of them ever need the money back.

I know you long banged the "it's better to rent than have assets" drum with respect to Saints, but let's have a bit of balance eh.
Re: Lam to stay on in 2020 Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:00 pm  

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FearTheVee wrote:
Classic RG spin :)

Here's another way of looking at it chap:
- The losses you quote for Saints include big depreciation charges (approx £500k p.a.) for a stadium that has been fully paid for whilst the club remains debt free;
- Early teething problems at the stadium (hospitality/catering etc subsequently taken in house, cladding-gate etc) led to chunky losses in early years, but after adjusting for depreciation, Saints made an opeprating profit in both 2015 and 2016 - we didn't make a final in either year. Wigan lost about £650k by the same measure in 2016 alone despite winning SL
- 2017 was a difficult one and a loss of c.£0.7m was made as lots of changes made and costs incurred (KC and some associated staff leaving mid-contract, connection lost between club and town) HOWEVER McManus has advised he expects us to be back in profit for 2018 without a final appearance. We will know soon enough as the accounts are due shortly. In 2017 Wigan lost £450k-ish despite winning the WCC and making (and profitably losing) the Challenge Cup Final.
- After recent conversion of shareholder loans to equity, Saints have a positive net asset position of £22m and no debt. Wigan are balance sheet insolvent with minimal assets, owe c.£1m to the Bank and c.£6m to Lenagan - hopefully neither of them ever need the money back.

I know you long banged the "it's better to rent than have assets" drum with respect to Saints, but let's have a bit of balance eh.


Wigan lost £650k and Saints lost £0.7m, I see what you did there, you are Alistair Campbell and I claim my £5.
Future Wigan/Youngish player Wishlist - SL Jack Walker, Will Pryce, Josh Thewliss, Jack Welsby, Lewis Dodd.
NRL - Cade Cust, Jayden Brailey, Tommy Talau, Josh Schuster, Sam Walker, Harley Smith-Shields.
Bring Back - Sam Tomkins, Joel Tomkins, Jack Hughes, Michael McIllorum, Ryan Sutton, Harry Rushton, George Williams and Josh Charnley.
Re: Lam to stay on in 2020 Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:02 pm  

User avatarFearTheVee wrote:
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post wrote:
Wigan lost £650k and Saints lost £0.7m, I see what you did there, you are Alistair Campbell and I claim my £5.


Go on then, help me out with what this means?
Re: Lam to stay on in 2020 Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:06 pm  

User avatarPieman wrote:
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post wrote:
Wigan lost £650k and Saints lost £0.7m, I see what you did there, you are Alistair Campbell and I claim my £5.


but in that we got to the CC final and had the WCC at Wigan and won it.
Re: Lam to stay on in 2020 Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:39 pm  

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Over the last couple of decades only 2 teams regularly made a profit. Leeds by some distance and Wire. Wigan often balanced the book and every other club have ran a loss.
As a sport we don't think we thank or recognise our investors and owners like Ken Davy etc enough.
once a wire always a wire
Re: Lam to stay on in 2020 Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:28 pm  

User avatarPieman wrote:
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rubber duckie wrote:
Over the last couple of decades only 2 teams regularly made a profit. Leeds by some distance and Wire. Wigan often balanced the book and every other club have ran a loss.
As a sport we don't think we thank or recognise our investors and owners like Ken Davy etc enough.


wire havent made a profit for a few years now. Mainly due to transfer fees though, Leeds do as its not just the rugby team its a collective
Re: Lam to stay on in 2020 Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:05 pm  

User avatarShortArse wrote:
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Pieman wrote:
wire havent made a profit for a few years now. Mainly due to transfer fees though, Leeds do as its not just the rugby team its a collective


yep. Wolves lost 260k in 2016 and 70k in 2017
Ah, good taste!
What a dreadful thing!
Taste is the enemy of creativeness.

Pablo Picasso
Re: Lam to stay on in 2020 Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:24 pm  

User avatarpost wrote:
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FearTheVee wrote:
Go on then, help me out with what this means?


More spin than Shane Warne.
Future Wigan/Youngish player Wishlist - SL Jack Walker, Will Pryce, Josh Thewliss, Jack Welsby, Lewis Dodd.
NRL - Cade Cust, Jayden Brailey, Tommy Talau, Josh Schuster, Sam Walker, Harley Smith-Shields.
Bring Back - Sam Tomkins, Joel Tomkins, Jack Hughes, Michael McIllorum, Ryan Sutton, Harry Rushton, George Williams and Josh Charnley.
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Sydney 24 636 475 161 32
Parramatta 24 566 457 109 30
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Catalans 23 688 398 290 38 172.86 82.61
St.Helens 21 548 229 319 32 239.30 76.19
Warrington 21 588 354 234 31 166.10 73.81
Wigan 25 387 385 2 30 100.52 60
Leeds 24 556 440 116 26 126.36 54.17
Hull KR 20 497 458 39 20 108.52 50
 
Castleford 23 439 552 -113 22 79.53 47.83
Hull FC 21 409 476 -67 17 85.92 40.48
Huddersfield 24 460 516 -56 18 89.15 37.50
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Featherstone 19 817 254 563 34 321.65 94.74
Halifax 19 512 323 189 26 158.51 68.42
Bradford 18 483 455 28 24 106.15 66.67
LondonB 18 504 499 5 21 101 63.89
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Swinton 20 354 719 -365 3 49.24 7.50
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Barrow 17 596 275 321 27 216.73 79.41
Workington 15 471 310 161 21 151.94 70
Doncaster 18 503 400 103 24 125.75 66.67
Keighley 19 640 399 241 25 160.40 65.79
Crusaders 18 553 438 115 22 126.26 61.11
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West Wales 18 208 896 -688 1 23.21 2.78
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St.HelensW 7 370 36 334 12 1,027.78 85.71
WiganW 6 222 64 158 10 346.88 83.33
YorkW 6 186 102 84 8 182.35 66.67
CastlefordW 6 166 96 70 8 172.92 66.67
BradfordW 8 158 264 -106 6 59.85 37.50
Hudds W 7 104 288 -184 4 36.11 28.57
 
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LeedsW 7 364 38 326 14 957.89 100
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