Re: Lam to stay on in 2020 : Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:24 pm  

So despite the salary cap, RL is still in a position where the teams that can afford to lose the most can win the most?

Wolves lost 260k in 2016 and 70k in 2017

Leeds make money but that's at the expense of spending on the team - and that is showing with their league positions once the golden generation retired.

Hull FC ground share in a council stadium.
Cas make money but havent won anything
Giants debts are £10M more than their assets

Hull KR? Salford? London? Wakefield? no financial cures there

all very worrying.

Re: Lam to stay on in 2020 : Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:52 pm  

Wigg'n wrote:

What do you mean 'assets to rescue them'?

Not to rescue as such, more of a remortgage

Re: Lam to stay on in 2020 : Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:39 am  

Rogues Gallery wrote: Since Saints moved into their new stadium they have lost £7,996 million. In the same period Wigan lost £1,613 million. https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... ng-history https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... ng-history Classic RG spin Here's another way of looking at it chap: - The losses you quote for Saints include big depreciation charges (approx £500k p.a.) for a stadium that has been fully paid for whilst the club remains debt free; - Early teething problems at the stadium (hospitality/catering etc subsequently taken in house, cladding-gate etc) led to chunky losses in early years, but after adjusting for depreciation, Saints made an opeprating profit in both 2015 and 2016 - we didn't make a final in either year. Wigan lost about £650k by the same measure in 2016 alone despite winning SL - 2017 was a difficult one and a loss of c.£0.7m was made as lots of changes made and costs incurred (KC and some associated staff leaving mid-contract, connection lost between club and town) HOWEVER McManus has advised he expects us to be back in profit for 2018 without a final appearance. We will know soon enough as the accounts are due shortly. In 2017 Wigan lost £450k-ish despite winning the WCC and making (and profitably losing) the Challenge Cup Final. - After recent conversion of shareholder loans to equity, Saints have a positive net asset position of £22m and no debt. Wigan are balance sheet insolvent with minimal assets, owe c.£1m to the Bank and c.£6m to Lenagan - hopefully neither of them ever need the money back. I know you long banged the "it's better to rent than have assets" drum with respect to Saints, but let's have a bit of balance eh.

Rogues Gallery wrote: Since Saints moved into their new stadium they have lost £7,996 million. In the same period Wigan lost £1,613 million. https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... ng-history https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... ng-history Classic RG spin Here's another way of looking at it chap: - The losses you quote for Saints include big depreciation charges (approx £500k p.a.) for a stadium that has been fully paid for whilst the club remains debt free; - Early teething problems at the stadium (hospitality/catering etc subsequently taken in house, cladding-gate etc) led to chunky losses in early years, but after adjusting for depreciation, Saints made an opeprating profit in both 2015 and 2016 - we didn't make a final in either year. Wigan lost about £650k by the same measure in 2016 alone despite winning SL - 2017 was a difficult one and a loss of c.£0.7m was made as lots of changes made and costs incurred (KC and some associated staff leaving mid-contract, connection lost between club and town) HOWEVER McManus has advised he expects us to be back in profit for 2018 without a final appearance. We will know soon enough as the accounts are due shortly. In 2017 Wigan lost £450k-ish despite winning the WCC and making (and profitably losing) the Challenge Cup Final. - After recent conversion of shareholder loans to equity, Saints have a positive net asset position of £22m and no debt. Wigan are balance sheet insolvent with minimal assets, owe c.£1m to the Bank and c.£6m to Lenagan - hopefully neither of them ever need the money back. I know you long banged the "it's better to rent than have assets" drum with respect to Saints, but let's have a bit of balance eh.

Re: Lam to stay on in 2020 : Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:00 pm  

FearTheVee wrote:

Classic RG spin

Here's another way of looking at it chap:
- The losses you quote for Saints include big depreciation charges (approx £500k p.a.) for a stadium that has been fully paid for whilst the club remains debt free;
- Early teething problems at the stadium (hospitality/catering etc subsequently taken in house, cladding-gate etc) led to chunky losses in early years, but after adjusting for depreciation, Saints made an opeprating profit in both 2015 and 2016 - we didn't make a final in either year. Wigan lost about £650k by the same measure in 2016 alone despite winning SL
- 2017 was a difficult one and a loss of c.£0.7m was made as lots of changes made and costs incurred (KC and some associated staff leaving mid-contract, connection lost between club and town) HOWEVER McManus has advised he expects us to be back in profit for 2018 without a final appearance. We will know soon enough as the accounts are due shortly. In 2017 Wigan lost £450k-ish despite winning the WCC and making (and profitably losing) the Challenge Cup Final.
- After recent conversion of shareholder loans to equity, Saints have a positive net asset position of £22m and no debt. Wigan are balance sheet insolvent with minimal assets, owe c.£1m to the Bank and c.£6m to Lenagan - hopefully neither of them ever need the money back.

I know you long banged the "it's better to rent than have assets" drum with respect to Saints, but let's have a bit of balance eh.

Wigan lost £650k and Saints lost £0.7m, I see what you did there, you are Alistair Campbell and I claim my £5.

Re: Lam to stay on in 2020 : Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:02 pm  

post wrote:

Wigan lost £650k and Saints lost £0.7m, I see what you did there, you are Alistair Campbell and I claim my £5.

Go on then, help me out with what this means?

Re: Lam to stay on in 2020 : Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:06 pm  

post wrote:

Wigan lost £650k and Saints lost £0.7m, I see what you did there, you are Alistair Campbell and I claim my £5.

but in that we got to the CC final and had the WCC at Wigan and won it.

Re: Lam to stay on in 2020 : Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:39 pm  

Over the last couple of decades only 2 teams regularly made a profit. Leeds by some distance and Wire. Wigan often balanced the book and every other club have ran a loss.
As a sport we don't think we thank or recognise our investors and owners like Ken Davy etc enough.

Re: Lam to stay on in 2020 : Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:28 pm  

rubber duckie wrote:

Over the last couple of decades only 2 teams regularly made a profit. Leeds by some distance and Wire. Wigan often balanced the book and every other club have ran a loss.
As a sport we don't think we thank or recognise our investors and owners like Ken Davy etc enough.

wire havent made a profit for a few years now. Mainly due to transfer fees though, Leeds do as its not just the rugby team its a collective

Re: Lam to stay on in 2020 : Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:05 pm  

Pieman wrote:

wire havent made a profit for a few years now. Mainly due to transfer fees though, Leeds do as its not just the rugby team its a collective

yep. Wolves lost 260k in 2016 and 70k in 2017

Re: Lam to stay on in 2020 : Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:24 pm  

FearTheVee wrote:

Go on then, help me out with what this means?

More spin than Shane Warne.