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Re: Why do Saints look unbeatable?
Post Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:10 pm
Posted by FearTheVee on Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:10 pm
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sergeant pepper wrote:
Oh dear indeed...

Having said that tho - is he as good as we're all making out? If he fails to win anything again this year he's not actually done anything. Madge had already won the league and the CC in the same time period.


Had he? This is Holbrook’s second season effectively (we were already out of the cup and floundering in SL when he arrived in 2017).

Madge won the CC at the second attempt - Holbrook is in the final at the second attempt.

Madge won the LLS and SL in his first season, Holbrook won the LLS but fell short by a late try in the SL semi.

If he wins the treble this year (big if!!!!) he’ll have achieved more than Madge and done it without some of the less savoury aspects of Madge’s approach whilst at Wigan. Madge didn’t make too many friends outside of Wigan with his approach to RL, I think Holbrooks Saints are viewed a bit differently.

There is also an argument to say Madge took Wogan backwards in his second season, finishing second vs LLS and limping out of the play-offs with two losses to a Saints team boasting rookie halves. I think most would agree saints look a more complete team this season.

But you need to win things to be remembered, we’ll see how he gets on!
Re: Why do Saints look unbeatable?
Post Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:20 pm
Posted by WARRIOR5 on Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:20 pm
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FearTheVee wrote:
Had he? This is Holbrook’s second season effectively (we were already out of the cup and floundering in SL when he arrived in 2017).

Madge won the CC at the second attempt - Holbrook is in the final at the second attempt.

Madge won the LLS and SL in his first season, Holbrook won the LLS but fell short by a late try in the SL semi.

If he wins the treble this year (big if!!!!) he’ll have achieved more than Madge and done it without some of the less savoury aspects of Madge’s approach whilst at Wigan. Madge didn’t make too many friends outside of Wigan with his approach to RL, I think Holbrooks Saints are viewed a bit differently.

There is also an argument to say Madge took Wogan backwards in his second season, finishing second vs LLS and limping out of the play-offs with two losses to a Saints team boasting rookie halves. I think most would agree saints look a more complete team this season.

But you need to win things to be remembered, we’ll see how he gets on!


And if I win the lottery (which I have a ticket for) I’ll be a millionaire. You can’t judge what Holbrook might do against what Madge did do. If Holbrook again fails to win a major trophy then he can’t really be judged as a success.
Re: Why do Saints look unbeatable?
Post Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:34 pm
Posted by FearTheVee on Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:34 pm
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WARRIOR5 wrote:
And if I win the lottery (which I have a ticket for) I’ll be a millionaire. You can’t judge what Holbrook might do against what Madge did do. If Holbrook again fails to win a major trophy then he can’t really be judged as a success.


I completely agree - said as much in my final line chap.
Re: Why do Saints look unbeatable?
Post Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:44 pm
Posted by apollosghost on Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:44 pm
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It's if he takes anyone with him that could really hurt them quickly.
Can't see Thompson going yet, he doesn't need the cash and wants to win stuff with his home town team, Knowles would be a big loss but I've no idea about his contract situation.
Re: Why do Saints look unbeatable?
Post Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:41 pm
Posted by Pieman on Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:41 pm
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[Gareth] wrote:
Nah, as mentioned above, Madge won trophy's


madge had a better team around him
Re: Why do Saints look unbeatable?
Post Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:43 pm
Posted by Pieman on Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:43 pm
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FearTheVee wrote:
Had he? This is Holbrook’s second season effectively (we were already out of the cup and floundering in SL when he arrived in 2017).

Madge won the CC at the second attempt - Holbrook is in the final at the second attempt.

Madge won the LLS and SL in his first season, Holbrook won the LLS but fell short by a late try in the SL semi.

If he wins the treble this year (big if!!!!) he’ll have achieved more than Madge and done it without some of the less savoury aspects of Madge’s approach whilst at Wigan. Madge didn’t make too many friends outside of Wigan with his approach to RL, I think Holbrooks Saints are viewed a bit differently.

There is also an argument to say Madge took Wogan backwards in his second season, finishing second vs LLS and limping out of the play-offs with two losses to a Saints team boasting rookie halves. I think most would agree saints look a more complete team this season.

But you need to win things to be remembered, we’ll see how he gets on!


Madge was told to win the CC as it was worth more money than the GF, it was a different team also a bit like saints this year.
Re: Why do Saints look unbeatable?
Post Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:05 pm
Posted by Phuzzy on Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:05 pm
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FearTheVee wrote:
Had he? This is Holbrook’s second season effectively (we were already out of the cup and floundering in SL when he arrived in 2017).

Madge won the CC at the second attempt - Holbrook is in the final at the second attempt.

Madge won the LLS and SL in his first season, Holbrook won the LLS but fell short by a late try in the SL semi.

If he wins the treble this year (big if!!!!) he’ll have achieved more than Madge and done it without some of the less savoury aspects of Madge’s approach whilst at Wigan. Madge didn’t make too many friends outside of Wigan with his approach to RL, I think Holbrooks Saints are viewed a bit differently.

There is also an argument to say Madge took Wogan backwards in his second season, finishing second vs LLS and limping out of the play-offs with two losses to a Saints team boasting rookie halves. I think most would agree saints look a more complete team this season.

But you need to win things to be remembered, we’ll see how he gets on!


There's more than a little Saints spin on that appraisal to be fair. In his first season and a half(ish) Holbrook won the LLS. That is a worse return (or the same return if you ignore 2017 which, at the very least allowed him to hit the ground running in 2018) as Shaun Wane in his first season and no one argues that that was a successful season. I can absolutely guarantee no Saints fan would argue it was! It doesn't matter how you lost in the semi. That's just ifs and buts. His 1st season was nowhere near that of Madges who inherited a struggling club and with the addition of just one player in the twilight of his career and that most considered past his best, turned them into champions.

If Holbrook adds the treble this season then his second full season will have been more successful than Madge's second but, realistically, anything less than a Grand Final win and he hasn't been as successful overall.
Re: Why do Saints look unbeatable?
Post Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:06 pm
Posted by FearTheVee on Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:06 pm
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Phuzzy wrote:
There's more than a little Saints spin on that appraisal to be fair.

If Holbrook adds the treble this season then his second full season will have been more successful than Madge's second but, realistically, anything less than a Grand Final win and he hasn't been as successful overall.


Who me?! ;)

I agree entirely, that’s why it was all couched in a treble winning season with the explicit statements that o my trophies are remembered.
Re: Why do Saints look unbeatable?
Post Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:15 pm
Posted by Phuzzy on Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:15 pm
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FearTheVee wrote:
Who me?! ;)

I agree entirely, that’s why it was all couched in a treble winning season with the explicit statements that o my trophies are remembered.

Haha.. I know, what was I thinking?! :lol:

I think we're pretty much on the same page here. It's all about the Grand Final really.

What's your take on him leaving? Remembering our dip in form when Wane announced he was leaving and having seen your performance on Saturday (which despite Magic Superbeetle's protestations wasn't very convincing) do you have any worries that it might derail your season?
Re: Why do Saints look unbeatable?
Post Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:33 pm
Posted by FearTheVee on Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:33 pm
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Phuzzy wrote:
Haha.. I know, what was I thinking?! :lol:

I think we're pretty much on the same page here. It's all about the Grand Final really.

What's your take on him leaving? Remembering our dip in form when Wane announced he was leaving and having seen your performance on Saturday (which despite Magic Superbeetle's protestations wasn't very convincing) do you have any worries that it might derail your season?


It’s a shame he’s leaving as he’s done a terrific job but I don’t think it will mean anything this season, if anything I imagine it might help in the short term to get clarity so people can move on.
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