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Re: Are we too nice?
Post Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:39 pm
Posted by Bigredwarrior on Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:39 pm
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Grimmy's right, the rule changed and for the better in my view.

In relation to the opening post, I don't think playing within the rules is being too nice. There would be uproar on here had someone taken Sneyd out late and got sent off. Truth is, he sat deep enough to give himself time to kick it well. He hid for most of the game and popped up on the last tackle to kick it. I don't think he took a tackle so we couldn't even rough him up there. Sometimes you just have to tip your hat to a player and I reckon this is one of those times. I just wish Sam had smashed him when he gave Sam a sly, cowardly dig after Sam lost the ball trying to score. That was the perfect opportunity but we missed it.
Re: Are we too nice?
Post Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:35 pm
Posted by Grimmy on Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:35 pm
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Pieman wrote:
seen it done this year though

You may be thinking of kick offs, which are still a penalty if caught on the full with one foot out. Straddling the touchline also still works in the favour of the 'straddler'
Frank Zappa wrote:
Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.

The_Enforcer wrote:
Most idiotic post ever goes to Grimmy..... The way to restart should be an arm wrestle between a designated player from each side.
Re: Are we too nice?
Post Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:29 pm
Posted by Salty on Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:29 pm
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Well, I have been thinking about this since Saturday and was about to post my thoughts which are remarkably similar to the supporters who began this post. Shaun Wane said Hull were the 'best' (I wish he would say better)team. I don't think they were. We out scored them by 4 tries to 3, two of our tries, by Gildart and Burgess were results of some brilliant passing while Hull tries were ordinary. I think the one in the right hand corner was a result of a forward pass.
Of course Wigan could have played better but so could Hull. Just because our kicking game wasn't good doesn't mean we deserved to lose!
It's the Maguire knock on all over again. We were cheated out of the challenge cup. Plain and simple.
Okay, one decision went against Hull IF our winger's foot was on the dead ball line, but a number of decisions went against Wigan. I'm not surprised when the ref is from Leigh.
IL should complain vehemently, not echo Wane's sentiments.
Re: Are we too nice?
Post Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:44 pm
Posted by Hasbag on Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:44 pm
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It was 3 trys each.
Re: Are we too nice?
Post Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:23 pm
Posted by Pieman on Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:23 pm
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Grimmy wrote:
You may be thinking of kick offs, which are still a penalty if caught on the full with one foot out. Straddling the touchline also still works in the favour of the 'straddler'


maybe pal
Re: Are we too nice?
Post Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:51 pm
Posted by hull2524 on Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:51 pm
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sour grapes get over it, best team won, should have been more, what I will say is your still a good team and your tackling is spot on, we closed you down and for the most part you did us , it was a cup final and both teams played like it was, but on this day we where better, on another day you might be, we might even play again in the grand final, by the way I thought Ellery handley was a true sportsman and a credit to rugby league
once a black and white always a black and white COYH
Re: Are we too nice?
Post Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:20 pm
Posted by Fames on Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:20 pm
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Salty wrote:
Well, I have been thinking about this since Saturday and was about to post my thoughts which are remarkably similar to the supporters who began this post. Shaun Wane said Hull were the 'best' (I wish he would say better)team. I don't think they were. We out scored them by 4 tries to 3, two of our tries, by Gildart and Burgess were results of some brilliant passing while Hull tries were ordinary. I think the one in the right hand corner was a result of a forward pass.
Of course Wigan could have played better but so could Hull. Just because our kicking game wasn't good doesn't mean we deserved to lose!
It's the Maguire knock on all over again. We were cheated out of the challenge cup. Plain and simple.
Okay, one decision went against Hull IF our winger's foot was on the dead ball line, but a number of decisions went against Wigan. I'm not surprised when the ref is from Leigh.
IL should complain vehemently, not echo Wane's sentiments.


I have also been thinking about this since Saturday - but also since about 2010 -2011! Some would accuse me of paranoia but back then some statistics were produced about Wigan's win ratio with certain refs. No surprise but with most refs it was 70 - 80% - I think Alibert was over 90% though!
I believe it was Bilko who gave this quite startling information and he may be able to throw more light on this:
Wigan's win ratio with Bentham as referee was under 40% - an alarming statistical discrepancy when with all the others it was over 70%. A win ratio one would expect from one of the more successful teams who were Super League champions at the time and enjoying another successful season back then.
I know he was the ref when Wigan beat Huddersfield a month ago but that was Wigan's first and only win with him as ref this season. I am pretty certain he was also the ref when Wigan lost at home to St Helens, Warrington and Widnes last season. More paranoia?
And although Thaler was the on-field ref in the Grand Final against Leeds, as I can recall the 2 VRs (there were 2 back then) were a certain Mr Bentham and Mr Child....!! Or was Child the touch judge that day? It was they who judged that McGuire didn't knock on. I actually think Thaler was unsighted - these things do happen and one cannot expect an on-field ref to spot everything, but there was absolutely no excuse for the knock on not to be given by the VR. The ball bounced off his leg after he dropped it but it was not a deliberate kick, hence a knock on according to the rules of RL.
I believe 99 out of 100 fans/sane impartial human beings who understand rugby would have judged McGuire to have knocked on. Similarly, I believe over 90% would have judged that the ball was reefed from Clubb's hand and awarded a try. The whole BBC commentary team believed so as did the Hull coach.
I do not blame Bentham for not awarding the try - you cannot expect an on field ref to spot everything, but there is no excuse for Child not to see the reef. One camera angle definitely proved this - hence the unanimity amongst the BBC experts and Radford and seemingly everyone else - apart from Hull fans, who were understandably peeved by the disallowed try for obstruction - that for me was verging more on a 50/50 call) and Wigan haters.
Momentum is crucial in rugby league and Bentham has the unfortunate habit of making bad calls against Wigan (the 2 knock ons) just after half time. Even Jonathan Davies called these! These were just as crucial in Wigan losing as it took the juice out of them!, giving Hull more possession and leading to their only try of the half. By the way, was the final pass to the winger forward? Look at his body angle. It was certainly more forward than the disallowed Tom Davies try after 5 minutes in the semi-final! Paranoia??
One can expect some 50/50 decisions to go with your team and some against you. Were these 50/50?
The McGuire knock on and Clubb reef examples though were 99/1 or 90/10 at the most. When have Wigan been the beneficiaries of such incomprehensible (and incorrect) decisions by a VR? Particularly in a crucial game such as a final. I can think of only 1 - when Manfredi was awarded a try by Hicks in a Cup game (against Cas?) a year or two ago - but that was in the last few minutes when Wigan already had a big lead.
The disallowing of the Burgess try by VR Thaler in the semi-final flew in the face of the "rules" by which VRs are supposed to work. That is why an increasing number of Wigan fans are angry. One hears about "rub of the green" - I am so looking forward to Wigan having a decision by the VR go in their favour when it is patently the wrong decision. I want to hear what the Leeds, saints or Leeds fans will then think!
Paranoia? Is their some deep-seated reason why VRs give a decision that 99% of fans would disagree with? Is it because quite a lot of this generation of refs grew up in the 80s and 90s - when as young fans of other clubs (Leigh, Warrington, St Helens, Yorkshire teams such as Leeds and Hull) they grew up sick of the sight of Wigan winning the Cup and the League year after year....?!
Wigan haters?? Paranoia??!!
Enough of the paranoia - some rational and reasoned argument now:
Hull played the better rugby most of the game and in the eyes of many deserved their win. Wigan players made 2 crucial mistakes though that probably cost them the game in the final analysis. Farrell's failure to play the ball properly (an unforgivable mistake) led to Hull's first try and then Powell's kicking out on the full in the 41st minute (a lack of skill) resulted in the start of Hull dominating possession in the first 15 minutes of the second half and were just as crucial as the howlers from Child and Bentham in all this.
Re: Are we too nice?
Post Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:18 am
Posted by Grimmy on Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:18 am
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Fames wrote:
paranoia?

Yes
Frank Zappa wrote:
Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.

The_Enforcer wrote:
Most idiotic post ever goes to Grimmy..... The way to restart should be an arm wrestle between a designated player from each side.
Re: Are we too nice?
Post Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:45 am
Posted by Jake the Peg on Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:45 am
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bentham is the only ref who doesn't allow you to cheat all game so no surprise you don't win as many with him in charge.

The only thing which saved you from a more convincing defeat on saturday was your excellent goal line defence. I hop you don't make top 4 as you will be tough to beat if you're in the play offs
Re: Are we too nice?
Post Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:48 am
Posted by PrinterThe on Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:48 am
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McGuire having a try disallowed st your place in 2015 for obstruction and Tierney scoring away against Warrington last year to deny them the LLS (for a week at least) spring straight to mind as dubious ones Wigan have got from the VR......but I'm sure these will be clear correct decisions according to some.
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