Re: Stand Off : Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:59 pm  

Salty wrote:

All the best props that I can remember started off in a different position.
Brian McTigue was a centre.
Andy Platt was a loose forward.
Terry Clawson was a back row.
Peacock was a back row.
Kevin Ward was a back row.
Andy Farrell was a loose forward.
They all had speed which helped them to break the line whereas out and out props, apart from a few exceptions (Barry McDermot) weren't able to do this.
For example: Ricky Bibey, Gil Dudson and Terry O'Connor.
When a loose forward moves into a position where he needs more speed and agility, then I don't think it works.
I never liked seeing Farrell, Sculthorpe and Sinfield plaing stand-off.

Terry O connor was far better than Barry Mac, was the best prop at the club by a mile.

Re: Stand Off : Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:14 pm  

Salty wrote: All the best props that I can remember started off in a different position. Brian McTigue was a centre. Andy Platt was a loose forward. Terry Clawson was a back row. Peacock was a back row. Kevin Ward was a back row. Andy Farrell was a loose forward. They all had speed which helped them to break the line whereas out and out props, apart from a few exceptions (Barry McDermot) weren't able to do this. For example: Ricky Bibey, Gil Dudson and Terry O'Connor. When a loose forward moves into a position where he needs more speed and agility, then I don't think it works. I never liked seeing Farrell, Sculthorpe and Sinfield plaing stand-off. When I first looked at your list Salty I thought in the back of my mind I had Andy Platt starting off at Centre, I could not find this but maybe it was as a junior at St Pats. What I did find though is that Andy's son is playing grade Rugby on the Gold Coast. I also found this little snippet from over 20 years ago, off topic but interesting. http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j& ... t6CubbxGog

Salty wrote: All the best props that I can remember started off in a different position. Brian McTigue was a centre. Andy Platt was a loose forward. Terry Clawson was a back row. Peacock was a back row. Kevin Ward was a back row. Andy Farrell was a loose forward. They all had speed which helped them to break the line whereas out and out props, apart from a few exceptions (Barry McDermot) weren't able to do this. For example: Ricky Bibey, Gil Dudson and Terry O'Connor. When a loose forward moves into a position where he needs more speed and agility, then I don't think it works. I never liked seeing Farrell, Sculthorpe and Sinfield plaing stand-off. When I first looked at your list Salty I thought in the back of my mind I had Andy Platt starting off at Centre, I could not find this but maybe it was as a junior at St Pats. What I did find though is that Andy's son is playing grade Rugby on the Gold Coast. I also found this little snippet from over 20 years ago, off topic but interesting. http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j& ... t6CubbxGog

Re: Stand Off : Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:58 pm  

stillinthepast wrote: When I first looked at your list Salty I thought in the back of my mind I had Andy Platt starting off at Centre, I could not find this but maybe it was as a junior at St Pats. What I did find though is that Andy's son is playing grade Rugby on the Gold Coast. I also found this little snippet from over 20 years ago, off topic but interesting. http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j& ... t6CubbxGog Christian is back over here but as far as I know isn't playing for anyone. He's probably about 20 years of age now and was in the U15's and U16's scholarship teams alongside Williams, Tierney, Lever etc.

stillinthepast wrote: When I first looked at your list Salty I thought in the back of my mind I had Andy Platt starting off at Centre, I could not find this but maybe it was as a junior at St Pats. What I did find though is that Andy's son is playing grade Rugby on the Gold Coast. I also found this little snippet from over 20 years ago, off topic but interesting. http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j& ... t6CubbxGog Christian is back over here but as far as I know isn't playing for anyone. He's probably about 20 years of age now and was in the U15's and U16's scholarship teams alongside Williams, Tierney, Lever etc.

Re: Stand Off : Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:39 pm  

I have said on other threads that my main concern for next season is in the centre position where we have little experience and depth.
Sargininson a recent convert and Gelling another convert who for me is still intrinsically a forward playing centre.
I think the stand off role is a little different.
We have potentially 3 younger guys namely Williams, Hampshire and Powell who could play stand off. At this point one or more could make the position his own. For me one of the exciting things to look forward to next season is who will make that position his own.
Personally longer term I would like Hampshire at stand off, Williams at scrum half with Smith at cover for hooker/scrum half or even exiting due to the fact that he can't make the scrum half position his own.
I think we could finish anywhere from from 1st to 6th next season dependent not exclusively but very much on how effective our new half back pairing whoever they are perform.
Let's sit back and enjoy hopefully one of 3 exciting youngsters developing into a longer term fixture at stand off.
As I said I hope Hampshire is the eventual "winner" however, if it's Williams or Powell so be it as long as we improve season on season. Next season is very much a transitional season however, recent history suggests we can still compete for trophys whilst there are many changes in personnel.

Re: Stand Off : Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:09 am  

I agree with much of that, but I think more highly of Smith than you seem to. He was good for us last season, got into the national side and did pretty well, and I don't see why he shouldn't build on that this year. But of course it's all good that we have young talent to call on, and I wish them all well.

Re: Stand Off : Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:08 am  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

Christian is back over here but as far as I know isn't playing for anyone. He's probably about 20 years of age now and was in the U15's and U16's scholarship teams alongside Williams, Tierney, Lever etc.

Well spotted Rogues, I fell into the trap of reading an Aus newspaper article and not checking that the web page was 4 years old, did Andy have another son because the son in the article is named John ?. Cheers.

Re: Stand Off : Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:00 pm  

I think there's two very different points in discussion which have slightly crossed over. One is about player development and the other is which position a player ended up.

Re: Stand Off : Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:49 pm  

Salty wrote:

All the best props that I can remember started off in a different position.
Brian McTigue was a centre.
Andy Platt was a loose forward.
Terry Clawson was a back row.
Peacock was a back row.
Kevin Ward was a back row.
Andy Farrell was a loose forward.
They all had speed which helped them to break the line whereas out and out props, apart from a few exceptions (Barry McDermot) weren't able to do this.
For example: Ricky Bibey, Gil Dudson and Terry O'Connor.
When a loose forward moves into a position where he needs more speed and agility, then I don't think it works.
I never liked seeing Farrell, Sculthorpe and Sinfield plaing stand-off.

I know this topic is completely off topic now but I just want to throw another name into the mix. When I first saw this list I thought that one of the most famous props in the history of the game was missing and I was expecting one of our St Helens friends to put us right.

Alan Prescott the old ST Helens prop and Captain of both club and country made his debut for Halifax as a 15 year old winger and signed for Saints in 1949, he went on to play loose forward, second row and finally prop for St Helens.

Re: Stand Off : Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:43 pm  

I recall a Castleford fan , whom I was working for at the time , telling me that Kevin Ward started off at Centre

Re: Stand Off : Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:23 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

Christian is back over here but as far as I know isn't playing for anyone. He's probably about 20 years of age now and was in the U15's and U16's scholarship teams alongside Williams, Tierney, Lever etc.

I think he was referring to Jonathan who is playing in australia..