Re: Todays match v Salford : Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:44 pm  

Gazwire wrote:

So what excuse have the players got for the past 7 odd years including getting knocked out, in the first round, at home in the past 3 years? So after 7 odd years of underperforming, they've suddenly grown a conscience and are now annoyed at the club's predicament?

These same 'annoyed' players are the ones who threw Steve Price under the bus and Tony Smith in his last 2 years.

Although I'm still strongly behind Powell, I do agree with comments that he has perhaps gone in too much like a bull in a China shop.

I agree with your take here.

I'm not sure if the problem is that he has gone in like a bull in a China shop but the guys he's brought in haven't worked. Mikel Arteta has taken a similar approach at Arsenal and results have been mixed, but Arteta has got credit in the bank because some of the young players have advanced under him and he's made some signings that have clearly improved the team.

Powell has brought in some guys who aren't doing it and look worse than the guys from the Price era who he is moving on. This will really be killing Powell's reputation in the squad, because the ones who are on the outer and not buying in to Powell's methods will be saying to each other "he wants us out and he's replacing us with these turds".

Still, there's a reason I was keen on Powell being Wire coach since the end of the TS era. He is a good coach who has improved teams in different environments and played a positive style of rugby. So I'm willing to ride through blips and go all in on Powell, give him a good 3 years.

Re: Todays match v Salford : Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:01 pm  

Barbed Wire wrote:

The 4 years of Price were awful, it’s widely accepted. But he made the play offs year on year, the team made it to finals and even looked like they might even do something. That complete abject failure of a 4 year tenure is so far away from where we are now. Price came in and started by “fixing up the defence”, we never conceded 40 or more and were difficult to break down, that is a positive of his reign. But he couldn’t make the attack work. Right now, we can’t do anything.

Making the playoffs year on year and getting knocked out at home on each occasion against teams with considerably smaller budgets. Is that acceptable with the investment our club have made?

Surely you must see that in order to undertake a root and branch change of culture, to hopefully achieve the GF, it means they'll have to be fundamental changes to playing staff. Any coach brought in, who's tasked with making these fundamental changes will have faced the same problem I imagine. If a new manager came in at your place of work and told you and the rest of your colleagues that you've been underperforming for years, you need to buck your ideas up, and there are no more perks like finishing early; would you and the rest of your team be working at 100%? I imagine no. And in addition, you'd be overtly putting in less effort than for the previous coach who used to give you an easier ride - therefore a drop in performance below the previous regime's level. Difference is with this lot, there are thousands of supporters there cheering them on, and they still can't be bothered to put the effort in.

Re: Todays match v Salford : Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:13 pm  

Barbed Wire wrote:

Smith’s last years included Cooper, Currie, Ratchford and Clark. So if you’re suggesting that these are the bad apples that run through the club, then why have they been consistently picked by Smith, Price and Powell? We have Walker desperate for game time, if Clark is a bad apple, let Walker play. Ratchford has been resigned as he is a good influence, as Powell suggests, Currie is consistently picked over Longstaff, if he’s so disruptive then get rid. So that leaves Cooper. Cooper is the bap apple. But still picked over and again.

They weren't bad apples necessarily under the other 2 coaches because they were performing to the levels expected by those coaches at the time. And those levels were getting knocked out in the first round of play offs at home against 'inferior' sides. Powell isn't accepting those levels. He sees, I'm certain, that those players should be performing at higher levels and potentially levels that can take the club the club one step further and he's forcing the issue and it's backfiring. At least he's trying though and sees what many of us have thought - that these players, for a number of years have been coasting it.

I do agree with you and others though that there should be more consistently and reason for players to be dropped and promoted to the first team. I'd get rid of the lot and put in the young players/players putting effort in for the rest of the season.

Re: Todays match v Salford : Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:15 pm  

I'm ambivalent about this, but I'm just about still in the Powell camp.

But he hasn't just come in a few weeks back, we are now several months into the project and it increasingly feels like a desperate, scattergun approach that is yielding no results.

No new manager bounce
No improvement in playing style

I agree, root and branch change takes time, is painful and is often unpalatable. But he would get much more buy in if everyone could see some green shoots, even short term, quick win green shoots.

All I see is division, dischord and alienation.

Re: Todays match v Salford : Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:34 pm  

Unfortunately though it seems player power is still king and until there all gone, Powell is stuck with players who who would rather show their disdain for the changes through lazy performances than play for pride and their club's fans.

There are too many bad apples for this season to turn around performance-wise.

But I have faith in Powell, his track record of improving players and clubs over a long, long period of time is worth the trust imo.

Re: Todays match v Salford : Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:43 pm  

ninearches wrote:

I must say ,for a bad apple ,Cooper gives 100% every week.

Cooper was told by Powell he wasn't wanted for 2023, as soon as Powell came to the club this year. He doesn't want to leave and hadn't had any cross words with Powell at the time either.

Re: Todays match v Salford : Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:49 pm  

What is this bad apple cobblers??? The worst playing apple is Oliver Holmes yet seems undroppable. As nice a guy as Mr Ratchford is he’s a woeful six. Thewlis could’ve been FB all season but no he’d rather play a player there who is leaving next season who could be helping out in the halves.

No bad apples caused Powell to bring a very unfit Mikaele back on with 10 to go with a flimsy lead at stake, no bad apples caused him to play Greg ruddy Minikin on the wing. The excuses are wearing thin. The emperor was down to his long johns for me last week but he’s completely in the knack now and it’s not a pretty sight.

Re: Todays match v Salford : Mon Jul 04, 2022 3:14 pm  

It’s absolute nonsense that a “root and branch” transition is a legitimate excuse for what is being served up now. It’s JULY. He took charge in March/April last year and had autonomy over signings. He has signed 11 players and retained (on new contracts) 5. This is HIS squad. The bad apple tune is played out, he’s been backed to dispose of Charnley, Magoulias and King. Displaced Butler and Doro and filled the squad to suit what he wants. He’s signing garbage, mates, has-beens.

But, with 16 in a squad directly recruited/retained by him, he can’t get a tune out of them. They can’t defend, they fall away at the back end of games and there is no marked improvement on the woeful attack.

What has he achieved? Where are the green shoots of hope for me to renew my season ticket? More importantly, when appointed, what did the board hand down as an acceptable performance indicator and has he met that? We’re 10th, and either Wakefield will draw level with us or Toulouse will close the gap to 4 points from the bottom.

You say about limping out of the play offs with a whimper, at the moment there should be genuine concern about going down. The job was getting a squad on-side and united to challenge for a title, and we’re six points off the club he left and stripped of his preferred players. We’re in freefall.

Re: Todays match v Salford : Mon Jul 04, 2022 3:51 pm  

Barbed Wire wrote:

It’s absolute nonsense that a “root and branch” transition is a legitimate excuse for what is being served up now. It’s JULY. He took charge in March/April last year and had autonomy over signings. He has signed 11 players and retained (on new contracts) 5. This is HIS squad. The bad apple tune is played out, he’s been backed to dispose of Charnley, Magoulias and King. Displaced Butler and Doro and filled the squad to suit what he wants. He’s signing garbage, mates, has-beens.

But, with 16 in a squad directly recruited/retained by him, he can’t get a tune out of them. They can’t defend, they fall away at the back end of games and there is no marked improvement on the woeful attack.

What has he achieved? Where are the green shoots of hope for me to renew my season ticket? More importantly, when appointed, what did the board hand down as an acceptable performance indicator and has he met that? We’re 10th, and either Wakefield will draw level with us or Toulouse will close the gap to 4 points from the bottom.

You say about limping out of the play offs with a whimper, at the moment there should be genuine concern about going down. The job was getting a squad on-side and united to challenge for a title, and we’re six points off the club he left and stripped of his preferred players. We’re in freefall.

It pains me to say that is the post of the week.

Re: Todays match v Salford : Mon Jul 04, 2022 4:19 pm  

Barbed Wire wrote:

It’s absolute nonsense that a “root and branch” transition is a legitimate excuse for what is being served up now. It’s JULY. He took charge in March/April last year and had autonomy over signings. He has signed 11 players and retained (on new contracts) 5. This is HIS squad. The bad apple tune is played out, he’s been backed to dispose of Charnley, Magoulias and King. Displaced Butler and Doro and filled the squad to suit what he wants. He’s signing garbage, mates, has-beens.

But, with 16 in a squad directly recruited/retained by him, he can’t get a tune out of them. They can’t defend, they fall away at the back end of games and there is no marked improvement on the woeful attack.

What has he achieved? Where are the green shoots of hope for me to renew my season ticket? More importantly, when appointed, what did the board hand down as an acceptable performance indicator and has he met that? We’re 10th, and either Wakefield will draw level with us or Toulouse will close the gap to 4 points from the bottom.

You say about limping out of the play offs with a whimper, at the moment there should be genuine concern about going down. The job was getting a squad on-side and united to challenge for a title, and we’re six points off the club he left and stripped of his preferred players. We’re in freefall.

We’re stayin up brother!