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An Unpalatable Thought
Post Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:45 am
Posted by morrisseyisawire on Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:45 am
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This morning, whilst preparing my early morning Ceylon and ruminating on yesterdays game, an unpleasant thought struck me.

Are we actually that good?

On Friday I watched one of the worst Wigan teams I can recall stumble to victory and move within 2 points of the top five. Hull, a team who have taken some fearful beatings this year, are firmly ensconced in the top 4. Catalan have swung from good to abymsal but look nailed on for the top 5. None of the supporters of these teams would claim to be having a good season, so is being leaders of the chasing pack really that big an achievement?

So, are we genuine contenders with Saints for the big prizes or are we just slightly better and more consistent than the rest? Have we improved and they have stood still or have we maintained whilst they have slipped backwards? Are we gamely trying to keep pace with Saints or looking over our shoulders?

I repeat, are we actually that good?
Re: An Unpalatable Thought
Post Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:55 am
Posted by easyWire on Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:55 am
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Well, we were much worse last year and came within a couple of scores of winning the double. Nothing is nailed on in RL these days.

If we are back to near enough full strength leading up to October 12th and we are focussed there’s no reason we can’t go one better. I’d be asking more questions if we finished top and failed to win a semi like we did in 2011, and like Saints did last year.
Re: An Unpalatable Thought
Post Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:02 pm
Posted by Widnes Al on Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:02 pm
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Warrington are capable of winning the double! The performance levels are though worryingly inconsistent and I’m beginning to fear that it’ll be another case of ... next year will be your year!
Re: An Unpalatable Thought
Post Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:19 pm
Posted by Psychedelic Casual on Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:19 pm
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No team in Super League is that good.

The lack of Salary Cap increases over the years in line with inflation increases or sports inflation increases has averaged out the league. Not that it’s averaged it out so every team is equally as good or bad as each other, it’s just dropped the quality across the league and made it quite an average league.

Most of the best English players go to the NRL or Union. All the best NRL players stay in the NRL unless they reach 30+. All the best Union players stay in Union.

There was once a time when most of the best English players would stay here. There was once a time when some stars of Aus/NZ would come here. There was once a time when some stars of Welsh Union would come and play here too.

Super League is a bridge between the quality of the NRL and the Intertrust Super Prem/Cup. There’d be Intertust sides who’d do well in Super League.

While some SL sides have some top players, top of the league Saints are an average side in the Grand Scheme of things. So, no, we’re not that good and neither is anyone else.
Last edited by Psychedelic Casual on Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:43 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Re: An Unpalatable Thought
Post Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:35 pm
Posted by lefty goldblatt on Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:35 pm
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We're OK. Good when we want to be, frustrating at times, and very indisciplined throughout.
Negatives
We're too heavily reliant on Clark, Ratchford and Austin, and we lack bite when Hill and Cooper are rotated. We have scrum half that isn't good enough for where we aspire to be, a second rower who is nowhere near the level he was, pre injury, and a couple of "big hitters" that have been carried at times.
Positives
We're comfortably second (admittedly, in a poor quality league) and will be slight favourites to reach another CCFinal. We have strike players in several positions, who are potential match winners.

So, whilst I'm not exactly doing backflips, neither am I reaching for the razor blades. Daft losses happen in sport, like being ahead all game, then losing matches at the death. My toys are still in my pram, but we DO need to win something by mid October. Losing finals REALLY does piddle me off
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Re: An Unpalatable Thought
Post Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:53 pm
Posted by Saddened! on Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:53 pm
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I think you're a relatively comfortable second to this Saints side in the general scheme of things. Our elite players are slightly better than yours overall (I'll concede Austin), our younger players are signifnicantly better than yours (Thompson, Ashworth, Lees, Knowles, Smith are all superb players).

If it were first past the post I don't think you'd stand much of a chance. Not quite Celtic in the Scottish Prem, but you wouldn't win the league either. But it's not and you definitely can beat us in individual games. You should turn us over at your place in a couple of weeks as we don't need to win and have a 4 player per week rotation policy going currently. You also have a superb record against us in big games. Absolutely no reason why you can't beat us in both finals and win the double if you play well.

I'm just hoping Hull can carry on their recent surge in form and become a force. They are capable of beating Warrington and Saints if they are fit and on form and motivated. I'm hoping they come along and cause havoc in both the Challence Cup and Super League semi finals.
Re: An Unpalatable Thought
Post Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:55 pm
Posted by ninearches on Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:55 pm
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The Wakefield game ,where they came back admirably in the 2nd half, should have been a wake up call to our team & coaching staff but we are seeing a lack of being able to put games to bed recently & other teams know that.
Re: An Unpalatable Thought
Post Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:30 pm
Posted by Shazbaz on Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:30 pm
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Our discipline is a lot worse this year for some reason. Austin is well marshalled and we don't have a decent 2nd HB to create anything when this happens. I think we have played some really average games but because we still come up with the win, it's making us look better than we actually are by being 2nd in the league.
Re: An Unpalatable Thought
Post Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:38 pm
Posted by CW8 on Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:38 pm
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Saddened! wrote:
I'm just hoping Hull can carry on their recent surge in form and become a force. They are capable of beating Warrington and Saints if they are fit and on form and motivated. I'm hoping they come along and cause havoc in both the Challence Cup and Super League semi finals.


If they do then I hope they do the double, winning both finals without conceding a single point in either game (unless halifax manage a minor miracle on which case I hope grix wins the cup as fax manager).
Re: An Unpalatable Thought
Post Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:47 pm
Posted by Oxford Exile on Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:47 pm
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we have some very good players capable of getting in most teams...we have some average players who do a job and support the good players....and we have some slightly below average players who aren't up to the required standard to be a championship winning team.

We need another quality halfback (Widdop...jobs a good un)...and we need 2 more good prop forwards...in the Carvell/wood mould, and another good centre. Then we might have a shot....IMO
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