Re: Most underrated players for Wire in the SL era : Fri May 08, 2020 1:44 pm  

Asgardian13 wrote:

Dennis Curling was a very talented winger. Played in the John Bevan era which is probably why he never got the fan's plaudits.

Loved Curling... didn't he get a neck injury that ended his career early?

Re: Most underrated players for Wire in the SL era : Fri May 08, 2020 4:10 pm  

Dita's Slot Meter wrote:

Loved Curling... didn't he get a neck injury that ended his career early?

Yes at Central Park. He got up and played the ball after the tackle that caused the injury. It was subsequently reported that if he had tried to carry on he would’ve been paralysed.

Re: Most underrated players for Wire in the SL era : Fri May 08, 2020 6:53 pm  

Sally
Very interesting piece on Gee. Never knew that.

Denis Curling - yes we tend to forget about players like him as for many of us it was when we were getting into RL and the whole set up as different.

Nowadays thanks to Warrington Borough Council and Simon Moran and partners we almost expect to be at or near the top.
Back then we didn't

Re: Most underrated players for Wire in the SL era : Sat May 16, 2020 5:36 pm  

Glad Wainrights been mentioned. As a kid on the terraces and at home around family there would be "oh no's" whenever he got the ball and fears a drop was coming. Maybe I was too young to remember his first spell and the worries were warranted but having watched some games from his second spell recently he was actually very good with ball in hand and putting people away. I remember the game against Wigan in 2004 with Wood going under the stands. Wainright had an absolute blinder. Tackled everything, put in decent kicks when he was given it on the last and then chased it down to make the tackle, drew defenders well and put people into gaps, assisted a try and scored one himself after a cut out pass to Gaskell down the wing.

He and Nathan Wood had a good patnership on that side and I really do think he was much better than ever given credit for.

Re: Most underrated players for Wire in the SL era : Sat May 16, 2020 10:02 pm  

I always think how good Wainwright would been if he’d have moved to a team like Saints. Look at what it did for Scully...and Fozzard even.
I wish we had a Wainwright’ now with a half decent pack around him.

Re: Most underrated players for Wire in the SL era : Sun May 17, 2020 5:00 pm  

There's a strange phenomenon with players that come through the Academy, when they first emerge they get overrated by our fanbase, but those that are good enough to become fixtures in the first team seem to become underrated and underappreciated over time.

I think its that everybody is hoping for the next player where we strike gold like Harris or Sculthorpe, so when they are on the fringes of the team or play their first few games, the hype goes overboard. But after a while they probably get judged more critically as Academy products than they would have been if they signed from outside. Wainwright suffered from that like Riley.

Re: Most underrated players for Wire in the SL era : Sun May 17, 2020 5:17 pm  

Thinking about Wainwright, and the stick he copped at the end of his first spell with us, there was another player who suffered a similar experience soon after but never recovered from it: Jon Roper.

Neither of them had been long term underperformers, they basically had one bad season where they lost the confidence of the fans and DVDV, but in both cases the fans were savage. Now its 20 years on, the Roper thing looks OTT. From what I remember he'd been quite popular in his first few seasons, and we had high hopes for him as a home grown product. In 1999 he was in the GB train-on squad. Then he had a few bad games in 2000 and the crowd turned really nasty. Worse than they had on Wainwright. With Wainwright it was impatient moans and groans, but the Fletcher Street End REALLY hated Roper in 2000, it was malicious. He got the kind of stick that was usually reserved for Bobby Goulding!

DVDV farmed him out to Salford, and I think he had a bit of time with Castleford then disappeared. His decline was unusually steep.

Nobody ever brings up Roper as a player where we say "what might have been", but if my memory is right, he only really had a few bad months of form and he was kicked to the curb. Ryan Atkins went through spells like that a couple of times and came back from it. Was Roper really a lost cause, or with a more supportive coach and sympathetic fan base, could he have been brought back to the level he was in the previous couple of seasons?

Re: Most underrated players for Wire in the SL era : Sun May 17, 2020 6:28 pm  

sally cinnamon wrote:

There's a strange phenomenon with players that come through the Academy, when they first emerge they get overrated by our fanbase, but those that are good enough to become fixtures in the first team seem to become underrated and underappreciated over time.

I think its that everybody is hoping for the next player where we strike gold like Harris or Sculthorpe, so when they are on the fringes of the team or play their first few games, the hype goes overboard. But after a while they probably get judged more critically as Academy products than they would have been if they signed from outside. Wainwright suffered from that like Riley.

Interesting point, SC. Cooper wasn’t tremendously popular before he went to the NRL, and even now there seems to be a section of support that under rates him. So far (touch wood) Philbin seems to have avoided the over praise then turn on him cycle.
I also wonder to what extent Wilderspool played a part in what happened. You could often hear a single fan’s withering comment which was picked up by others,this doesn’t seem to apply at the HJ.

Re: Most underrated players for Wire in the SL era : Mon May 18, 2020 3:48 pm  

Yeah I think Cooper is underappreciated, probably he slipped under the radar because he emerged in the team at a time when we had a strong pack and we weren't desperate for the next new hope so weren't pinning massive expectations on him.

Steve Pickersgill seemed to get more hype than either Cooper or Paul Wood. There was serious buzz about him when he was coming through.

The Wilderspool point is interesting too. Wilderspool was more cliquey in terms of certain types of supporters congregating in different parts of the ground, eg pondlife corner and the Fletcher Street End. In the Fletch you had a type of supporter, generally male, aged about 35 to 60, who had been going since the 60s/70s/80s, had a grumpy cynical attitude and also a complete certainty that they were the ultimate authority on rugby league. Their general view of the world was:any Wire coach was a total idiot, there were tons of lads out there at Woolston Rovers who were better than the tosh we put on the field but the club wasn't looking at them, the RFL was in league with Wigan and Saints and the refs were taking backhanders, they would always moan about who got named the sponsor's man of the match and when the crowd figure was announced they'd say that was a lie too. They had old school views about not playing players out of position, someone is a 6 not a 7 or vice versa, the fullbacks main job was to tackle as the last line of defence and so on. If a player left Warrington to join another club it was a mortal sin. Once this lot had decided that a player was in their sights, the barracking they would get would be relentless and week after week. Wainwright and Roper were victims.

I used to stand in this part of the Fletch in my teens and twenties, because I liked the raucous atmosphere but these types did get on my nerves. I'm sure they came to the HJ too but I think the stadium move diluted them around the ground more. They fed off each other's anger and I think that lessened at the HJ.

A few years later I moved to Leeds and started watching Super League games in the Skyrack pub, and you would get the Leeds version of these Fletcher Street know-alls, they had the same kind of world view. Sometimes Gary Schofield would be in there stood in the middle of them spouting off and they hung on his every word. His media columns said the same stuff they believe too. The Leeds version were also obsessed with Geoff Boycott and the power struggles of who was on the committee at Yorkshire Cricket Club. I remember they had it in for Karl Pratt and they treated Tony Smith as a suspicious outsider. They didn't seem as enthralled as the younger Leeds fans with the high tempo offloading game that he brought in when they started winning, and after that Cup final when they lost to Hull they turned on him.

Re: Most underrated players for Wire in the SL era : Mon May 18, 2020 6:06 pm  

sally cinnamon wrote:

There's a strange phenomenon with players that come through the Academy, when they first emerge they get overrated by our fanbase, but those that are good enough to become fixtures in the first team seem to become underrated and underappreciated over time.

I think its that everybody is hoping for the next player where we strike gold like Harris or Sculthorpe, so when they are on the fringes of the team or play their first few games, the hype goes overboard. But after a while they probably get judged more critically as Academy products than they would have been if they signed from outside. Wainwright suffered from that like Riley.

When i see comments like this i think instantly of Toby King who seems to get pelters on here. hen i watch Toby King i see a very good defender who could still improve his attacking game. Maybe the Wire fans wouldn't notice until he leaves. Just an observation. Same goes for Livett. Is it a coaching problem?