Re: Most underrated players for Wire in the SL era : Fri May 01, 2020 9:27 pm  

Paul Cullen was described in open rugby magazine as 'The classy centre with the film star looks'!! Yes, seriously.
He was actually on the verge of making the GB squad until his incident with a certain Mr.Goodway.

Re: Most underrated players for Wire in the SL era : Fri May 01, 2020 10:42 pm  

Yes I think Cullen thinks that was where he blew his chance because Mal Reilly was at Wilderspool that day, he thought he might have had a chance of the 1988 tour to Australia.

Stretching the rules about "SL era" again (this guy did play for us in 2001 so technically counts) how about Gary Mercer for another underrated player. In his first spell from 1989 to 1992 he was possibly our best player over that time. Certainly would have been up there. He had a tough mentality as well, and was a big imposing guy who was quite fast in his first spell. He had an arrogant swagger to him, not in a bad way, he just gave off the impression that he privately rated himself as the best player around and he was another who was never going to be intimidated by opponents or by pressure situations.

Whereas with Cullen you knew he would stay at Warrington for life unless something really drastic happened, I always felt it was a matter of time before Mercer joined one of the big clubs which happened in the end with Leeds.

I was pleased when he rejoined us in 2001 too, not just for sentimentality reasons. He was in his mid 30s then and seemed to have fallen out with people at Halifax where he'd been player coach. We were going through a difficult season and the team was sliding in the wrong direction, Mercer came in and seemed to bring confidence and toughness to the dressing room and played pretty well too. Later in the season, when we announced the replacement for DVDV as coach, Mercer quit straight away and went back to Leeds. I think he joined us to position himself to go for the coaching vacancy and as soon as he saw it wasn't happening, he was off.

Re: Most underrated players for Wire in the SL era : Sat May 02, 2020 10:34 am  

Gary Mercer underrated??... The opposite I'd say.

Came in December 1989 with Duane Mann, off the back of the NZ tour, as an international centre and so there was a certain expectation that we were getting something special.

What we got for the first 12 months was a distinctly average centre, with no more talent in the centre than Paul Cullen, who himself was very limited in that position.

An injury crisis in the winter of 90/91, led to him being moved into the second row, we then went on a run which saw us lift the Regal Trophy and suddenly a new player was discovered.

Overall, he was a (accidentally) good second row for us, but considering his reputation when he initially signed, I'd say underrated is being very kind.

Re: Most underrated players for Wire in the SL era : Sat May 02, 2020 4:40 pm  

It's interesting to hear other people's perceptions. Maybe me putting in Mercer is similar to the earlier poster who included Logan Swann where I disagreed - a player who made a good contribution that doesn't get talked about much now - rather than underperforming against expectations at the time. Like Swann, Mercer was an established Kiwi international. Also I only started watching in 1989 and was getting to know the players from scratch so I didn't have prior expectations in my mind of Mercer being a big name player.

Re: Most underrated players for Wire in the SL era : Tue May 05, 2020 8:17 am  

I thought Mercer was rated well but I am only old enough to remember him under Cullen.
Thought Mike Wainwright always got a rough time of it, Always looking for the offload and didn't miss tackles. Would of looked great in a better side.

Re: Most underrated players for Wire in the SL era : Tue May 05, 2020 8:23 am  

Captain Hook wrote:

I always head a feeling that Fa’afili was under rated by a lot of supporters. I don’t understand why Lineham doesn’t get any where near the level of praise that Josh Charnley does, but I guess it’s all in the eye of the beholder.

Didn't like seeing Fa'aflli on defending kicks chasing back If i remember correctly. Going forward under the high ball. I don't remember anyone better. I remember him being shifted to centre towards the end and seeing what looked like a world beater at times.

Re: Most underrated players for Wire in the SL era : Tue May 05, 2020 11:03 am  

Fa'afili had his flaws but he seemed to attract more stick than he deserved. Everyone was quick to have a moan when he made an error but explained all his tries away as Gleeson putting them on a plate for him. He wasn't a winger that was going to excite the fans, given his style of play. Fans like wingers with pace who can go the length of the field and guys who can do that will get the benefit of the doubt from the crowd - everyone was rooting for Kevin Penny to make it when he went through a bad patch, and Allan Hunte who could be lazy was also a popular figure because he scored some burners for us. Fa'afili was the slowest winger I can remember at Warrington. He was basically a kick receiver and someone who could finish well from close range because he had a strong build.

Fa'afili's skill set was quite similar to Joel Monaghan, although JM was better. We used them in similar ways. JM benefited from playing in the TS era when we were winning Challenge Cups, whereas Fa'afili played in the Cullen era when we were signing lots of big names but always seemed to be the same underachieving side, hovering on the fringe of the playoffs. Fa'afili was probably judged in a more critical way because of the frustration of the fans during that era. I wonder whether if you swapped the eras where those two played, if JM would have attracted more criticism, as he was also a winger that didn't have great pace, and if Fa'afili would have been given an easier ride from the fans.

You could make a similar case for Mike Wainwright vs David Solomona. Solomona was a better player but they had a similar skill set (Wainwright had better stamina and work rate, Solomona better at creating magic plays, but they were both ballplaying forwards). Solomona may have been seen as a frustrating luxury in the Cullen era and Wainwright could have been seen as an underrated gem if he played in the TS side. I always thought Wainwright would have worked in the Saints side of the era if he'd been there instead of Bennett or Stankevitch.

Wainwright was a good player for us in his second spell. Cullen seemed to believe in him whereas DVDV never seemed to rate him. Moving away did him good because at the end of his first spell he had a really bad time where he was making handling errors, the fans were getting on his back and DVDV was making it clear he didn't think much of him. He came back a better, more confident player from his spell in Salford.

Re: Most underrated players for Wire in the SL era : Tue May 05, 2020 3:27 pm  

The stick Mike Wainwright used to get was totally unjustified, another one of those players who crowds seem to scapegoat for not always apparent reasons.

Re: Most underrated players for Wire in the SL era : Tue May 05, 2020 4:15 pm  

For those of middle age Gary Sanderson Roby muller Paul ford roger O'Mahoney just a few who were most underrated... No doubt there's many more

Re: Most underrated players for Wire in the SL era : Tue May 05, 2020 4:57 pm  

Captain Hook wrote:

The stick Mike Wainwright used to get was totally unjustified, another one of those players who crowds seem to scapegoat for not always apparent reasons.

Agreed. Mike hit a period during his Wire time where the team around him were pants. If he wasn’t so loyal, he’d have been playing for England not Scotland. I look at what moving to Wigan did for ex Wire forwards on an international scale.