Re: England's Spine : Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:40 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

It's scary just how few British pivots there are in SL and when you try to find real quality, especially under 30, there are fewer still (understatement).
Every club is guilty of going for the overseas option in these positions and they have been following this route for 40 years.
Not since Gregory/Edwards have we had a quality English partnership and until we can fix this, we wont improve on 2nd place (or worse).

It's a real concern, the city of Hull for example havent produced a SL standard halfback since Cooke and Horne.

Re: England's Spine : Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:37 am  

Dave K. wrote:

It's a real concern, the city of Hull for example havent produced a SL standard halfback since Cooke and Horne.

As a sport and perhaps it's the national coaches call, perhaps we should be looking at whether some of the full backs can make it as a top class HB.
Tomkins is a good example of this.
I'm sure that if he'd played more in the halves, he would be better than what we currently have.
Reads the game well, decent pass, unbelievable step and a decent kicking game.

Surely, RL in England needs to have a really good look at itself ?

It's far from straightforward as clubs will always look after themselves first but, if we keep on going down the import route for these key positions, the national side will NEVER beat the Aussies.

Re: England Spine : Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:48 am  

Les Norton wrote:

Clark’s strength is capitalising on quick play the balls and running at retreating defenders. He wouldn’t get much of these opportunities in the NRL or at international level against Australia or NZ. He distribution isn’t all that. Very good SL level player, of which there is no doubt. But at international level there’s better options.

How would he not get much of these opportunities in the NRL? Have you ever watched Damien Cook, Harry Grant or Apisai Korisau play? He would rip it up over there. Joey Johns has said it himself. His distribution is fantastic. Seriously if you don't think Clark is good enough to get into the England team I can't help you.

Re: England Spine : Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:02 pm  

Lord Tony Smith wrote:

How would he not get much of these opportunities in the NRL? Have you ever watched Damien Cook, Harry Grant or Apisai Korisau play? He would rip it up over there. Joey Johns has said it himself. His distribution is fantastic. Seriously if you don't think Clark is good enough to get into the England team I can't help you.

In fairness, we're talking about whether he would get those running chances against Australia etc, when instead of perhaps playing behind a decent pack and his side being on top, he is left feeding on scraps.
Having said that, I think that Clark should have been our "other" hooker for ages (instead of Hodgson).

Re: England Spine : Fri Feb 26, 2021 2:43 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

In fairness, we're talking about whether he would get those running chances against Australia etc, when instead of perhaps playing behind a decent pack and his side being on top, he is left feeding on scraps.
Having said that, I think that Clark should have been our "other" hooker for ages (instead of Hodgson).

He said 'at international level there are better options', they're really isn't.

Re: England's Spine : Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:22 pm  

This is a huge year for Jake Connor. Brett Hodgson is one of the great full backs of the modern era, and he did that through his attitude and his attention to detail. He wasn't blindingly quick or athletic, and he didn't have the natural ability that Connor did. But his positional play and his reading of the game was exceptional. He did all of the little things right.

He's come in and given Connor the number 1 shirt and from day one he has spoken excitedly about what he could do there. It's a position that suits Connor perfectly imo, and I expect us to adopt a style of play that suits him much better too. If he gets his head down and learns what Hodgson has to teach him and combines that with the ability we already know he has then he will definitelybe in this discussion at the end of the year.

Re: England's Spine : Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:26 pm  

Mr. Zucchini Head wrote:

This is a huge year for Jake Connor. Brett Hodgson is one of the great full backs of the modern era, and he did that through his attitude and his attention to detail. He wasn't blindingly quick or athletic, and he didn't have the natural ability that Connor did. But his positional play and his reading of the game was exceptional. He did all of the little things right.

He's come in and given Connor the number 1 shirt and from day one he has spoken excitedly about what he could do there. It's a position that suits Connor perfectly imo, and I expect us to adopt a style of play that suits him much better too. If he gets his head down and learns what Hodgson has to teach him and combines that with the ability we already know he has then he will definitelybe in this discussion at the end of the year.

We’ve been hearing this about Connor for the past 7 years. When exactly is he going to reach this potential all the hull fans say he has? He will be retiring in a few years.

Actual quality players show if from an early age, not their late 20’s

Re: England's Spine : Sun Feb 28, 2021 12:13 am  

For me:

1. S.Tomkins
2. Makinson
3. Percival
4. Gildart
5. Farnworth
6. Williams
7. Gale
8. Walmsley
9. Roby
10. T.Burgess
11. Bateman
12. Farrell
13. Thompson

14. Clark
15. Sutton
16. Whitehead
17. Watts

Reserves: Johnstone, Connor, Lomax, Hodgson, Philbin, Cooper, Currie

No Super League player is soft, but any time Wigan play a big game against Saints, Lomax tends to spend time on the floor getting treatment, then go missing. I think he's a talented player, but it takes more than that at international level. The Aussies get nasty if they sense an upset. Long and Deacon both had their faces patched back together after illegal hits against Aus/NZ. Long even stayed on and put in an outstanding performance after Mason did him, I don't think Lomax would be up for that.

Edit - totally forgot Williams!

Re: England's Spine : Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:04 pm  

Grimmy wrote:

For me:

1. Ratchford
2. Makinson
3. Percival
4. Gildart
5. Farnworth
6. S.Tomkins
7. Gale
8. Walmsley
9. Roby
10. T.Burgess
11. Bateman
12. Farrell
13. Thompson

14. Clark
15. Sutton
16. Whitehead
17. Watts

Reserves: Connor, Johnstone, Lomax, Hodgson, Philbin, Cooper, Currie

No Super League player is soft, but any time Wigan play a big game against Saints, Lomax tends to spend time on the floor getting treatment, then go missing. I think he's a talented player, but it takes more than that at international level. The Aussies get nasty if they sense an upset. Long and Deacon both had their faces patched back together after illegal hits against Aus/NZ. Long even stayed on and put in an outstanding performance after Mason did him, I don't think Lomax would be up for that.

Mike Cooper over Ryan Sutton.

Re: England's Spine : Mon Mar 01, 2021 5:02 pm  

Lord Tony Smith wrote:

Mike Cooper over Ryan Sutton.

I'm more worried with Rachford as first choice FB