Re: England Spine : Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:12 pm  

MillennialRhino wrote:

Some possibles to get the juices flowing:

1st Hooker: Roby
2nd Hooker: Not Hodgson for mine. Nor Clark he unless plays very well this year. Happy to try one of the workhorses as 2nd fiddle e.g. McShane or Houghton.

Half-back 1: Luke Gale
Half-back 2: George Williams

Fullback: IMO Jake Connor needs to be on the pitch somewhere and happy for it to be here or centre. I guess Wane'll probably go with either Lomax or Tomkins.

Houghton over Clark and Hodgson? Wow!!
Think someones had 2 many sherberts

Re: England's Spine : Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:32 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

He certainly has the ability but, I agree that he doesnt hit a 9/10 performance often enough.
Mind you, our spine wont scare anyone.

Tomkins is the only X factor player in there but, Daz Clark has to play either at 9 or be coming off the bench.
Even though he's getting to the end of his career, Roby, if he is still going strong at the end of the season will be nailed on.

Houghton is good but also getting on a bit and Hodgson has never offered the flair thet either Roby or Clark can offer.

Our halves, whoever we pick wont scare anyone. In fact our backs look ordinary.

We have relied on having a quality pack for the last few years but, even our forwards are looking weaker than they were at the last world cup.

It has to be said that under Bennett we have gone backwards, a poor side and no new blood to reinvigorate the side.

A semi final exit is the best that we can hope for.

Agree totally. Our backs are miles away from the class of Australia and NZ

Re: England Spine : Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:03 pm  

homme vaste wrote:

Why would you not play Clark? For me he is one of the only players that actually performs at international level for us.

Lomax over Connor every day of the week at FB based on what I have seen, I don`t get all of this " Connor needs to be on the pitch" nonsense, yes he has shown glimpses of been a very special player of that there is no doubt, if he gets his head down he will be a top player I think, but at this moment in time he has no consistency and has really done nothing to warrant the pedigree he is put on by some people.

Connor is an x-factor player. I remember a match vs NZ where they really seemed to struggle with him. NZ have several x-factor players, and we have very few. And Aus are always going to do the boring/"make no mistakes" stuff better than us so we need to have some creativity come from somewhere. In general with recent Eng/GB performances, we did the arm wrestle well enough but could do with a little more in terms of creativity.

Re: England's Spine : Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:12 pm  

1. S Tomkins
6. J Lomax Or maybe Hastings dependent on this season's form.
7. G Williams
9. Roby / Clarke - Interchange

Re: England Spine : Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:22 pm  

RagingBull wrote:

Houghton over Clark and Hodgson? Wow!!
Think someones had 2 many sherberts

Hodgson and Clark didn't do it for me at international level. Their games are both too reliant on oppositions' defences being in disarray, but that doesn't happen with Aus/NZ. To beat Aus/NZ you either need true creatives at 9 who can threaten even very good defences, or the other type of hooker who will deliver consistent ball to the backs and whack in defence.

I was dissatisfied by Hodgson and Clark at international level and didn't think they were what we needed, so I threw in a couple of alternatives to generate discussion. Feel free to make your case for Clark or Hodgson, or A.N.Other if you so wish!

Re: England's Spine : Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:32 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

He certainly has the ability but, I agree that he doesnt hit a 9/10 performance often enough.
Mind you, our spine wont scare anyone.

Tomkins is the only X factor player in there but, Daz Clark has to play either at 9 or be coming off the bench.
Even though he's getting to the end of his career, Roby, if he is still going strong at the end of the season will be nailed on.

Houghton is good but also getting on a bit and Hodgson has never offered the flair thet either Roby or Clark can offer.

Our halves, whoever we pick wont scare anyone. In fact our backs look ordinary.

We have relied on having a quality pack for the last few years but, even our forwards are looking weaker than they were at the last world cup.

It has to be said that under Bennett we have gone backwards, a poor side and no new blood to reinvigorate the side.

A semi final exit is the best that we can hope for.

Is Tomkins still X-factor? Genuine question.

For me, Connor and Williams are both X-factor players, wherever they're positioned.

Gale and Williams might give a balanced half pairing between x-factor and steady eddy running the show.

Initially I thought we had good enough wingers, and were just lacking for centres, but then I see some of the 7ft monstrosities/rapid as hell speedsters that are in the NRL and start to worry about our wingers too.....

Re: England's Spine : Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:22 pm  

MillennialRhino wrote:

Is Tomkins still X-factor? Genuine question.

For me, Connor and Williams are both X-factor players, wherever they're positioned.

Gale and Williams might give a balanced half pairing between x-factor and steady eddy running the show.

Initially I thought we had good enough wingers, and were just lacking for centres, but then I see some of the 7ft monstrosities/rapid as hell speedsters that are in the NRL and start to worry about our wingers too.....

You certainly rate Williams way, way more then me, although I hope that you're right.
As for Gale, excellent at SL level but, as an international ??

Tomkins reads the game very, very well and it's a pity that he's played very little in the halves, which is the area that England is most lacking in quality.
As has been said, Connor does have some X factor about him but, he's just not consistent enough as an international half and his temperament is certainly questionable.
Whoever England play, the opposition will be all over him to see if they can get him to "bite".

It will be interesting to see how Wane goes and what style he wants England to play
The assumption is that it will be similar to Wigan but, hopefully, he has a plan b,c and d.

Re: England Spine : Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:27 pm  

MillennialRhino wrote:

Connor is an x-factor player. I remember a match vs NZ where they really seemed to struggle with him. NZ have several x-factor players, and we have very few. And Aus are always going to do the boring/"make no mistakes" stuff better than us so we need to have some creativity come from somewhere. In general with recent Eng/GB performances, we did the arm wrestle well enough but could do with a little more in terms of creativity.

No he isn’t at all. One good game does not make him an “x factor player” at all. He’s nearly 27. Real X factor players do it from consistently from age 20 onwards.

Re: England's Spine : Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:33 am  

Connor is a poor man's Leon Pryce

Hodgson wouldn't be anywhere near my squad,

I'd probably go with:

Tomkins
Williams
Gale
Roby. Clark on the bench.

We could definitely do with finding some young pivots! 3 of those are at least 32.

Re: England's Spine : Thu Feb 25, 2021 1:07 pm  

It’s just depressing when you see some of the names being banded about,

Lomax and Williams are the only actual English halfbacks with any class these days,.