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Re: Future of the Game
Post Sat Mar 28, 2020 8:55 am
Posted by JTCFJG on Sat Mar 28, 2020 8:55 am
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wrencat1873 wrote:
There is a bit of a strange misconception here.

I agree.

The only "return" that the SL Chairmen get for their money is owning a SL club and perhaps an asset to sell if/when they want out.
There isn't too much of an annual dividend, as there would be in any regular business. In fact, they are probably all paying for the privilege of being in charge.

The grass roots is key

Unless there are ways found to encourage and keep more youngsters to play the game, it wont matter how many wealthy Chairmen there are, as there wont be any (enough) players and this is the fundamental problem with the N. American experiment.
I know that we're only a few years into the Toronto thing but, despite the blaze of publicity with their "search for a star" from American Football, they are still very much at first base in terms of youngsters, perhaps not even that far and "the dreamers" would happily trash half of the current SL clubs, along with their academies and community work etc, to chase a mythical new future.

Assuming that we all make it through the Coronavirus problems, there has to follow a period of consolidation and if we try to spread what little resources that remain too thinly, we could be done.


I agree.

That 'consolidation' was my suggestion. It has been clear even before this crisis, that the game as whole needed an overall to ensure its survival. This crisis will come to a slow need, but we have to plan now, and quite frankly I am sure that the Chairman up and down the leagues are thinking the same thing.

My suggestion simply moves numbers of players down the pyramid, with only the best players staying at the very top, so we have more BIG games that can command large crowds (when safe) and more watching on Sky or elsewhere. The players that drop out of full time rugby will be able to obtain part time contracts elsewhere and then find a second job. Those at the very bottom of the professional game are with clubs that will struggle financially in any way and we will lose them altogether if the RFL & SL do not 'club' together to help the lower clubs in nay way they can. There may have to be consolidation of clubs.

Which eight clubs could command those largest crowds in a shortened winter Extraordinary League, with a break through Mid December into Late January? Again I am not saying that this should last forever, but time and reality WILL kick in.
'Great defence, always wins games, y'only have to score one more point than them. If tha does, tha'll win, if that doesn't tha'll lose, learn from it, more than the win last week.'. Peter Fox, 1980.
Re: Future of the Game
Post Sat Mar 28, 2020 8:59 am
Posted by The Silent H on Sat Mar 28, 2020 8:59 am
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Donnyman wrote:
Drastic overhauls are ten a penny on a website full of anonymous posters who wouldn't back their own ideas with a £fiver of their own money.

The greatest ever dream was courtesy of a Leeds based TRL windbag whereby the Transatlantic league would eventually decide to move on Australia by taking on board the Perth Western Reds as was, bravely taking on the NRL in their own backyard.

And hey presto we'd have a "World league"........

Who cares what happens on TRL, why do you keep bringing them up?
Re: Future of the Game
Post Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:02 am
Posted by The Silent H on Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:02 am
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Donnyman wrote:
let me "out" these "selfish" club owners......

Lenegan - Wigan
Caddick - Leeds
Carter - Wakefield
Crossland & Hudgell - HKR
Pearson - Hull
Davey - Huddersfield
McManus - Saints
Moran - Warrington
Fulton - Castleford
Kurdi - Newcastle
Hughes - London
Beaumont - Leigh

Thing is if we organised a 12 club Superleague to keep these rich lads happy and investing/making up the losses, then Rugby League would survive and continue to obtain a SKY contract and be accommodated by the BBC.

But if you don't give these lads what they want for their heavy investments, and insist their money should be diverted to "the greater good" wayne, then perhaps they will all beggar off and then where would you and the game be?

You just do NOT look gift horses in the mouth.

Invent any old utter garbage you want about leagues and structures but it cannot work unless SKY pay for it and they want to pay less next time round. It will be these "selfish" owners who will save the game and the quid pro quo has to be letting them sit at the top table. Godammit they pay to do so......

Argylle and Guash say hi.
Re: Future of the Game
Post Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:03 am
Posted by Leaguefan on Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:03 am
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FWIW, those clubs hanging on, probably won’t. Many clubs will probably stay part time, RL just doesn’t have the finances currently to maintain many clubs at that level. The professional game worldwide relies on TV and TV wants eyes on the box.Toronto etc are a small step towards a global audience. Whether this succeeds or not is the question but I would suggest Toronto is far better known world wide than say Leigh or Castleford.
This current scenario is going to affect all sports and sadly, the demise of several clubs/teams worldwide or at least change of structure.
The same can be said of many businesses as well.
regards
and ENJOY your sport

Leaguefan

"The Public wants what the Public gets" - Paul Weller
Re: Future of the Game
Post Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:15 am
Posted by IR80 on Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:15 am
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The Silent H wrote:
Who cares what happens on TRL, why do you keep bringing them up?

Because they banned him, simple as that.
Re: Future of the Game
Post Sat Mar 28, 2020 10:51 am
Posted by wrencat1873 on Sat Mar 28, 2020 10:51 am
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JTCFJG wrote:
I agree.

That 'consolidation' was my suggestion. It has been clear even before this crisis, that the game as whole needed an overall to ensure its survival. This crisis will come to a slow need, but we have to plan now, and quite frankly I am sure that the Chairman up and down the leagues are thinking the same thing.

My suggestion simply moves numbers of players down the pyramid, with only the best players staying at the very top, so we have more BIG games that can command large crowds (when safe) and more watching on Sky or elsewhere. The players that drop out of full time rugby will be able to obtain part time contracts elsewhere and then find a second job. Those at the very bottom of the professional game are with clubs that will struggle financially in any way and we will lose them altogether if the RFL & SL do not 'club' together to help the lower clubs in nay way they can. There may have to be consolidation of clubs.

Which eight clubs could command those largest crowds in a shortened winter Extraordinary League, with a break through Mid December into Late January? Again I am not saying that this should last forever, but time and reality WILL kick in.


Consolidating what we have when this is all over, doesn't mean creating an 8 club top flight, which would effectively kill the game.
IF we are ever serious about expanding the game, either within the UK or further afield, the top flight needs expanding and going with your plan of a "super 8" competition through the winter, leaving ALL other clubs with zero income and costs still stacking up, will ensure the death of the game.

The idea that Sky viewing figures would significantly increase is folly - unless the rest of the sporting world remained in lockdown.
All that you are doing with your idea, is "giving" everything to 8 clubs and feck the rest, quite literally.

Also, what do you want to happen in future, if there is a future, as you have already ensured the death of all other semi pro and pro clubs in the western world. I actually despair.
Re: Future of the Game
Post Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:25 am
Posted by JTCFJG on Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:25 am
JTCFJG Eddie Hemmings's Wig
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wrencat1873 wrote:
Consolidating what we have when this is all over, doesn't mean creating an 8 club top flight, which would effectively kill the game.
IF we are ever serious about expanding the game, either within the UK or further afield, the top flight needs expanding and going with your plan of a "super 8" competition through the winter, leaving ALL other clubs with zero income and costs still stacking up, will ensure the death of the game.

The idea that Sky viewing figures would significantly increase is folly - unless the rest of the sporting world remained in lockdown.
All that you are doing with your idea, is "giving" everything to 8 clubs and feck the rest, quite literally.

Also, what do you want to happen in future, if there is a future, as you have already ensured the death of all other semi pro and pro clubs in the western world. I actually despair.



If you read the original post and follow up, you will see that I subscribe to the idea that the top eight keep the game in the public spotlight with more top flight games, AND that the players of the edge of the top flight play at the next level, many will have to go out on loan in any case or clubs at all levels WILL go bust. The game exists because of player payments, FACT, currently the top flight have the best youngsters playing reserve grade rugby and or out on loan, what is wrong with sharing them out to ease the financial load on those big clubs and allow those young lads who are full time, to go part time elsewhere and help out in the community. In times of war, which is what this is effectively, things have to change, and change they will. IF the game allows the virus to kill the game, it may not survive at any level. IF the game thinks strategically in order to save the whole game from bottom to top, RL has chance. Please do not think this is a perfect answer, it is not, but I do believe that the game itself MUST take control of its own destiny. That means the bigger clubs and SL and the RFL literally 'club' together to save the whole game with payments to the clubs that wish to continue on a part time basis. Some may not sadly.

ADDED as an example. Leeds Rhinos, and I am sure they are all the same have 36 players on the Men's First Team Squad, they also have a Women's squad, a women's under 19s squad, a boys Under 18s squad and a Scholarship roster. They all needs coaches, physios, masseurs, etc etc; total of 19 staff JUST for the first team. How can that be sustainable without money coming in? Again all the top clubs will be the similar. ALL of those lower level and younger players, (on loan) staff etc etc, can be shared out through the game to allow the game to be sustainable.
https://www.therhinos.co.uk/team/men/

While the Government are going to pay 80% of salaries, now is the time to make those big decisions. Players who want to set up their own business, players who want to get another job should be allowed to. Their financial wellbeing and that of their families are very important as well as their health and that is the same for clubs and the game as a whole. Challenging times, require challenging thinking!

Apologies, I will answer your final question. I want the game to survive at every level. That may need some consolidation. Just as in the business world, some clubs (and companies) will go bust. They may not disappear, as they could drop down a level, BUT the more the the whole game prepares to compromise for the next two years, the more likely the game as a whole (just as in the business world) will survive.

Just so you know, I have watched, played, coached, managed and ran clubs for the past forty five years. I played my last full open age game 18 months ago. I am no genius, and I know none of this is perfect, but I reasonably know and understand the game at each level. I also run a successful business that is having to consolidate as I type, because to all of a sudden the world has changed. That is the same in RL as in any other part of life.
'Great defence, always wins games, y'only have to score one more point than them. If tha does, tha'll win, if that doesn't tha'll lose, learn from it, more than the win last week.'. Peter Fox, 1980.
Re: Future of the Game
Post Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:34 pm
Posted by Dropkick Murphy on Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:34 pm
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The only way rugby league comes out of this as a full time sport in the UK is if they manage to get games played behind closed doors while there's very little other sport on. Sky will broadcast every game, people will watch it who wouldn't normally, and it will give the game some credit in the bank when the next deal is discussed.

If that doesn't happen though, and it will be very difficult for RL to be deemed "safe" to play if other sports aren't, then the only thing that matters is trying to survive and keep as many clubs in existence as possible. Everything else can wait.
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Re: Future of the Game
Post Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:47 pm
Posted by little wayne69 on Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:47 pm
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Dropkick Murphy wrote:
The only way rugby league comes out of this as a full time sport in the UK is if they manage to get games played behind closed doors while there's very little other sport on. Sky will broadcast every game, people will watch it who wouldn't normally, and it will give the game some credit in the bank when the next deal is discussed.

If that doesn't happen though, and it will be very difficult for RL to be deemed "safe" to play if other sports aren't, then the only thing that matters is trying to survive and keep as many clubs in existence as possible. Everything else can wait.

Unless I've got this wrong and apologies if I have, but surely the main aim is to keep everybody safe, and the other things like rugby can wait.
Re: Future of the Game
Post Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:58 pm
Posted by wrencat1873 on Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:58 pm
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little wayne69 wrote:
Unless I've got this wrong and apologies if I have, but surely the main aim is to keep everybody safe, and the other things like rugby can wait.


Absolutely agree
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