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Re: How can we help French RL? Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:24 am  

Donnyman wrote:
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wrencat1873 wrote:

The one certainty is that having one FT pro side in France + Toulouse, isn't ever going to allow them to compete with the big boys.
For this to happen, there would need to be 5 or 6 SL standard clubs over there, which, quite frankly, is never going to happen.

I do like the idea of English clubs "twinning with the French though and in the long term, with better coaching and development, their game would improve and more importantly, the number of potential SL players would increase, which could only be good for the sport.

It makes sense to build on something that currently exists, rather than planting RL clubs in no mans land or, halfway around the world


Well the Dragons aren't in the academy league anymore so there's no pathway for players to Superleague via their own backyard. Currently the Dragons have 12 English and Aussie players in their team and are chasing Wigan cast-offs as they head for a wholly non French team. They do not seem to have any regard for their original mission which was to be the conduit for the best players in France to professionalise and thereby make for a professional French International side.

Therefore there is no actual point to them any more, but its very kind of you to suggest that whilst Catalans stop bothering with French players somehow English clubs have to do this work for them? I note (as always) another of your interesting points that it may need "5-6 SL clubs in France" to get the game cooking there, both the development of players and a TV deal no doubt.

Takes me back to when Perez said that there would also need to be 5-6 north american clubs in Superleague to get a NATV deal and spark the grass roots there too.

How we fit 10-12 Superleague clubs from France and America into SL I dunno. Maybe we should stop being so insular and selfish? I say scrub Superleague and go for a Franco-American league :D :wink: .
Re: How can we help French RL? Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:58 am  

User avatarwrencat1873 wrote:
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Donnyman wrote:
Well the Dragons aren't in the academy league anymore so there's no pathway for players to Superleague via their own backyard. Currently the Dragons have 12 English and Aussie players in their team and are chasing Wigan cast-offs as they head for a wholly non French team. They do not seem to have any regard for their original mission which was to be the conduit for the best players in France to professionalise and thereby make for a professional French International side.

Therefore there is no actual point to them any more, but its very kind of you to suggest that whilst Catalans stop bothering with French players somehow English clubs have to do this work for them? I note (as always) another of your interesting points that it may need "5-6 SL clubs in France" to get the game cooking there, both the development of players and a TV deal no doubt.

Takes me back to when Perez said that there would also need to be 5-6 north american clubs in Superleague to get a NATV deal and spark the grass roots there too.

How we fit 10-12 Superleague clubs from France and America into SL I dunno. Maybe we should stop being so insular and selfish? I say scrub Superleague and go for a Franco-American league :D :wink: .


Wow, 2=2 does equal 12 :CRAZY:

I suggest that you read my post again and this time try not to jump to too many of your own conclusions.
In replying to the question posted by the op, I was merely suggesting what may be required for the French to compete at international level.

Despite a certain posters dreams, there isn't a hope in hell of there being 6 super league quality sides in France in my life time, although Toulouse do certainly have the potential to step up (assuming that they can develop a few more players.

Despite you jumping to numerous conclusions, I was merely suggesting some of what may be needed to have a competitive French national side and as stated, it's first of all up to the French governing body to decide what they would like to happen.
However, helping the French increase their player pool would be good for the WHOLE sport and not just the French.

Moving onto whether there should be additional French clubs in SL - for me they would have to be in addition to the current 10 British clubs in SL and why SL isn't a 14 club comp, without loop fixtures is just a mystery and this points to the poor health of the sport in the UK (and France), something that has to be addressed - whether you believe in any form of expansion or not.

Getting back to "twinning" with French clubs, I really dont see your problem with this.
Lots of SL clubs are already helping other UK clubs I the lower leagues so, why not help some others.

Remember, a strong sport is good for all of us, unless you have some personal reasons for disliking people who live beyond the M62 corridor ?
Re: How can we help French RL? Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:03 pm  

User avatarNoel Cleal wrote:
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I think we should just let more teams into our league structure. The argument against this in the past has been that hardly any of the clubs in France do not have the resources to hack it in Super League.

This has been a good reason on the assumption we are just making them jump though some hoops on the way to Super League. However looking at the applications of Ottawa and Belgrade neither of these club have "getting to Super League" as their top priority. Instead they have said that the production of talent, Canadian and Serbian respectively, is the main goal. Even the early talk coming from Valencia Hurricanes is that they want to have a Spanish club with Spanish players even if this means they will be a League 1 club for a long time.

Getting back to the OP the way the RFL can help these clubs is for the RFL to pay for all travel between European club centrally regardless if it is a coach over the Pennines or a plane over the channel. This has always been a big expense for any French club that wants to play in the UK, with the likes of Toulouse just swallowing the cost until they can get up into Super League and get more money.

So why don't we get the Carcassonne, Limoux, Lézignan, etc. into League 1 and help them pay for them and their visitors travel. That sounds simple enough to me.
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Re: How can we help French RL? Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:14 pm  

User avatarCokey wrote:
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Noel Cleal wrote:
I think we should just let more teams into our league structure. The argument against this in the past has been that hardly any of the clubs in France do not have the resources to hack it in Super League.

This has been a good reason on the assumption we are just making them jump though some hoops on the way to Super League. However looking at the applications of Ottawa and Belgrade neither of these club have "getting to Super League" as their top priority. Instead they have said that the production of talent, Canadian and Serbian respectively, is the main goal. Even the early talk coming from Valencia Hurricanes is that they want to have a Spanish club with Spanish players even if this means they will be a League 1 club for a long time.

Getting back to the OP the way the RFL can help these clubs is for the RFL to pay for all travel between European club centrally regardless if it is a coach over the Pennines or a plane over the channel. This has always been a big expense for any French club that wants to play in the UK, with the likes of Toulouse just swallowing the cost until they can get up into Super League and get more money.

So why don't we get the Carcassonne, Limoux, Lézignan, etc. into League 1 and help them pay for them and their visitors travel. That sounds simple enough to me.


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Re: How can we help French RL? Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:58 pm  

Donnyman wrote:
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wrencat1873 wrote:
Wow, 2=2 does equal 12 :CRAZY:

I was merely suggesting what may be required for the French to compete at international level.

Helping the French increase their player pool would be good for the WHOLE sport and not just the French.

Remember, a strong sport is good for all of us, unless you have some personal reasons for disliking people who live beyond the M62 corridor ?


What's required is International quality players like those 30 guys at the top of the English pyramid over those 200 guys below them in the pyramid playing pro, then below that 800 semi pro players and thousands of amateurs. France only has a handful of pro players so how exactly would clubs here "help" them find and train up the thousands of French players needed to find the hundreds that could play semi pro to find the dozens who could play Pro and enough talent at the top of that to play International??

The inference anyone "dislikes" the french does you no favours!! Maybe my post was mean spirited for which I apologise, but I assure you I don't dislike people who live beyond the M62 at all, I just think that we have to stop dreaming players will appear from nowhere with little expense and effort whether that is in Doncaster, France or Canada.
Re: How can we help French RL? Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:22 pm  

Donnyman wrote:
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Noel Cleal wrote:

Looking at the applications of Ottawa and Belgrade neither of these clubs have "getting to Super League" as their top priority. Instead they have said that the production of talent, Canadian and Serbian respectively, is the main goal. Even the early talk coming from Valencia Hurricanes is that they want to have a Spanish club with Spanish players........



Then what's the fuss about joining the leagues here about?

They need to start a junior development system in their own countries where they have development officers and coaches going round the towns organising the game in schools and taking that on to junior and amateur level locally.

Perez was told to develop players at TWP so he had a bit of a go with grid iron lads, quickly packed that in and conveniently forgot about development and bought Leigh's players on their relegation. The evidence is these clubs talk about development to try to blag their way in. They get blocked because SL know they aren't serious or capable of it and will end up chasing English players.

Truth is only the M62 has a sizeable established player development system in the Northern Hemisphere, that hardly supplies our own game. To have 12 professional clubs we have to import going on for 100 Antipodeans. It's not that I detest people south of Doncaster and north of Newcastle, I can just see the realities of the situation.

I don't think a certain "foreign" club had a better chance of developing players when they set up just south of the M62. Led by a great RL administrator and innovator this club attracted a lot of admiration, especially when they went all the way to Superleague and then blew the mighty Wigan away to win the cup.

If that club failed to develop any players in their 36 year history what chance do all these other clubs above have?
Re: How can we help French RL? Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:37 pm  

The Silent H wrote:
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The reason that Nrl clubs take their games away is because those towns offer financial incentives. If English clubs were forward thinking they might see that these opportunities could be out there.
Re: How can we help French RL? Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:55 pm  

IR80 wrote:
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The Silent H wrote:
The reason that Nrl clubs take their games away is because those towns offer financial incentives. If English clubs were forward thinking they might see that these opportunities could be out there.

Yes, because they are awash with surplus cash.
Re: How can we help French RL? Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:58 am  

User avatarwrencat1873 wrote:
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So, are we happy to try and help France grow their game ?
Re: How can we help French RL? Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:12 am  

Donnyman wrote:
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wrencat1873 wrote:
So, are we happy to try and help France grow their game ?


Absolutely not if any time or effort expended is at the expense of the game here.

For instance Toulouse and Catalans in SL means two English clubs NOT in SL.

For instance you send 2 development offices to France all expenses paid, these lads could have gone to Newcastle instead or Cumbria.

How do you justify sending any resources when Les Catalans have virtually abandoned development?

Even in the heartlands we struggle as badly as the French, so why forget those clubs and those amateur and schools leagues and go help the French game?
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