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Re: Leeds Salary Cap Breach
Post Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:56 am
Posted by bramleyrhino on Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:56 am
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wrencat1873 wrote:
You mention all of those clubs but, which of them have transgressed under the live cap
Back in the early days, although the cap was in operation, for the smaller clubs not able to spend the full cap, this was set under an unknown level of income, if you like guesswork, which certainly hasn't been the case for Leeds and Wigan, both of whom, can spend the maximum cap.


Wigan, Salford and Leeds have all transgressed under the new live cap system. But if we're going down the "breach is a breach" narrative, then all breaches of the rules should be treated as such. The rules in the RFL operational guide is clear and there for all to see - and has been since the introduction of the cap.

When Wigan were caught most recently I said that the points deductions were justified if only for the stupidity (rather than the scale) of the breach. I stand by that in the case of Leeds as well. These "admin errors" need stamping out. In the same vein, I'd also apply the same standard to clubs who look to seek commercial advantages by breaching minimum wage regulations.
I wish everyone would read bramleyrhino's post two or three times just to get it through some thick skulls


Mr bramleyrhino speaks a lot of sense.


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Re: Leeds Salary Cap Breach
Post Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:02 am
Posted by wrencat1873 on Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:02 am
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Him wrote:
No it doesn’t. That’s nonsense. A punishment for a cap breach should be proportionate to the size and nature of the breach.

All breaches should carry a points deduction but that’s where the similarities to this Union case should end. Neither the Wigan nor the Leeds breach are deserving of anything close to this kind of punishment. A 2 point deduction and fine is perfectly sufficient as a deterrence. With punishments increasing if the same clubs offend again.

As for thinking they are bigger than the game you just make yourself look daft with that comment as plenty of clubs have broken the cap.


Do you think that the bigger clubs would be heavily fined or points deducted, if they seriously transgressed ?

The recent "over spend" by both Wigan and Leeds dont even come close to the Wigan breech, when Fielden and Radlinski bolstered their squad a few years ago and I believe that it was the lack of real punishment on that occasion that seemed to set the precedent.
Personally, I have absolutely no doubt that if there was a genuine threat of relegation, both clubs would survive first and worry about the consequences later, knowing that their legal teams and their "clout" would spare them any significant punishment.

Although there was a massive difference in the behavior of Leeds and Wigan, compared with Saracens, you would gamble that they would have been hit a little harder if The RFU were running our sport.

When you consider their action to that of Elstone, when Wigan were caught, you just know how things are in our game.
Re: Leeds Salary Cap Breach
Post Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:37 am
Posted by [Gareth] on Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:37 am
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wrencat1873 wrote:
Do you think that the bigger clubs would be heavily fined or points deducted, if they seriously transgressed ?

The recent "over spend" by both Wigan and Leeds dont even come close to the Wigan breech, when Fielden and Radlinski bolstered their squad a few years ago and I believe that it was the lack of real punishment on that occasion that seemed to set the precedent.
Personally, I have absolutely no doubt that if there was a genuine threat of relegation, both clubs would survive first and worry about the consequences later, knowing that their legal teams and their "clout" would spare them any significant punishment.

Although there was a massive difference in the behavior of Leeds and Wigan, compared with Saracens, you would gamble that they would have been hit a little harder if The RFU were running our sport.

When you consider their action to that of Elstone, when Wigan were caught, you just know how things are in our game.


There was no breach of the cap or the rules
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Re: Leeds Salary Cap Breach
Post Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:29 am
Posted by ryano on Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:29 am
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bramleyrhino wrote:
And Salford, Wakefield, St Helens, Halifax, Hull FC and Bradford.....

But yeah, that doesn't necessarily fit the "big bad Leeds & Wigan" narrative.


It's known as Diddy club mentality! Ignore it!
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Re: Leeds Salary Cap Breach
Post Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:35 am
Posted by ryano on Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:35 am
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rugbyreddog wrote:
RU seem to have a better system. Saracens have just been fined £5.3 mill and docked 35 points.

Yeah for having dealings with companies with names like Faz Investments Ltd, Wiggy9 Investments and VunaProp Ltd!
At least try and hide the evidence!
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Re: Leeds Salary Cap Breach
Post Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:48 pm
Posted by wrencat1873 on Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:48 pm
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[Gareth] wrote:
There was no breach of the cap or the rules
oh really

Perhaps you slept through 2006 -2007 and missed all the fun :D
Re: Leeds Salary Cap Breach
Post Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:13 pm
Posted by [Gareth] on Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:13 pm
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wrencat1873 wrote:
oh really

Perhaps you slept through 2006 -2007 and missed all the fun :D


Nope, thats why the club where charged with breaking the 'spirit' of the cap. A completely made up charge as nothing existed back then to stop clubs doing what Wigan did
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Re: Leeds Salary Cap Breach
Post Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:02 pm
Posted by rollin thunder on Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:02 pm
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people saying you should have points deduction zero tolerance is like saying you should be banned from driving or even jailed for doing 75mph on the M62, or 35 in a 30 zone, what Saracens have done is similar to Melbourne storm and to some extent Salford. the equivalent of doing 70 in a 30 zone or 120 on the motorway. Its not the same.
Re: Leeds Salary Cap Breach
Post Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:26 am
Posted by barham red on Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:26 am
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rollin thunder wrote:
people saying you should have points deduction zero tolerance is like saying you should be banned from driving or even jailed for doing 75mph on the M62, or 35 in a 30 zone, what Saracens have done is similar to Melbourne storm and to some extent Salford. the equivalent of doing 70 in a 30 zone or 120 on the motorway. Its not the same.


But a fine for going over is like giving a multi millionaire a £70 parking ticket for leaving his lambo in a disabled spot.
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