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Referees
Post Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:13 am
Posted by Trainman on Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:13 am
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I think he is absolutely right to say this

https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/st ... tolerated/

I don’t think referees should be immune from criticism however the way they are treated has now gone too far & crosses the line of what is acceptable imo.

We need to remember that without referees there will be no game. The players (that’s all of them from all teams) need to start taking responsibility for their own behaviour and learn to control themselves.
Re: Referees
Post Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:42 am
Posted by wire-quin on Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:42 am
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I gave refereeing up due to just that. I wasn't travelling miles on my day off to be abused.

Unfortunately the players watch Sky RL and think all referees have touch judges, 5th referee........ the reality is that they have more than likely refereed the under 15s, under 17s and then the adult game.
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Re: Referees
Post Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:44 am
Posted by bramleyrhino on Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:44 am
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I agree, but I think we're also putting the referees in a thankless position.

As a sport, we definitely put too much emphasis on the referees. We see it on this forum when supporters immediately start commenting the second the referee appointments are announced. It really is quite pathetic.

But Ganson and Red Hall need to lead on this issue.

The referees are an easy target because they aren't really in a position to defend themselves. Coaches, many of whom are under various degrees of pressure, can call out referees in press conferences knowing that there's little recourse and that supporters will usually buy it. I can't remember which official it was, but I remember cringing when Richard Agar implied that a referee was being influenced by "comments he made about that ref in the past" earlier this year. We've even had official club Twitter feeds calling out match officials - is this really the sort of culture the sport needs?

There needs to be greater sanctions for players, coaches and club officials who do call out match officials publically. Let's be honest, most aren't doing it because they think the officials are poor - they're doing it to deflect from either their or their players' failings. I know people often retort to that sort of suggestion with "well the refs should be made to defend their decisions in public", but why? I don't expect Brad Singleton to go on Sky and explain his lazy swinging arm on Friday night, so why should I expect James Child to explain why he missed a forward pass?

The RFL needs to start making the job of being a match official easier. It's a bloody hard job and we're making it needlessly difficult. That includes making rule interpretations clearer, demanding higher standards of conduct from the players and eventually moving to a two referee system.

They also need to back their referees more. Ralph Rimmer can argue all he likes that James Child being sent to Widnes was not a 'demotion' following the incidents in Perpignan, but it was a real opportunity for the RFL to make a statement that it is backing and standing by its officials, and they blew it.

But above all else, the culture needs to change. We have to move from this culture where the default response from many sections from the supporter base is to 'blame the referee'. This goes from Super League right through to park rugby and until something is done about that culture, we're going to continue to have a recruitment problem in RL.

I really stopped caring about match officials a long time ago. I'm mature enough to understand that in professional sport, there's a strong possibility that I might disagree with a referee's call, but I accept that. I honestly found that it made me enjoy the sport a lot more.
I wish everyone would read bramleyrhino's post two or three times just to get it through some thick skulls


Mr bramleyrhino speaks a lot of sense.


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Re: Referees
Post Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:23 am
Posted by Chris71 on Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:23 am
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To be honest I think its a two way street in terms of respect. Whilst I oppose abusing the officials that does not mean they should be immune from criticism.
For me Ganson's input in the officials is telling but not in a positive way, they seem to have an arrogance about them that they didnt have before and consistency in officiating is lacking also.
I think that when they were still part time they were given more leeway within the game but now as full time professionals they should rightly be accountable for their performances.
Officiating is a thankless task but that doesn't mean they are exempt from criticism or that they shouldn't take on board what is being said and work towards a solution for the good of the game.
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Re: Referees
Post Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:49 pm
Posted by bren2k on Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:49 pm
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“I’ve seen examples of players trying to convince referees visually and verbally to rule against the opposition – for me, that’s not acceptable in Rugby League."

That's been going on for years - with certain high profile, "big name" players being repeat offenders; and whilst I agree with him that it's completely unacceptable, it could and should have been nipped in the bud years ago. It wasn't, so it's ramped up and become standard practice.

FWIW, I'd be entirely supportive of a scorched earth, zero tolerance attitude to dissent and referee abuse - and if that meant a couple of weeks of scrappy games, with players penalised and results affected, tough titty - that's on coaches and players, not referees; provided they are at least somewhat consistent with it, clubs would have no one to blame but themselves.
Re: Referees
Post Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:17 pm
Posted by bewareshadows on Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:17 pm
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Chris71 wrote:
To be honest I think its a two way street in terms of respect. Whilst I oppose abusing the officials that does not mean they should be immune from criticism.
For me Ganson's input in the officials is telling but not in a positive way, they seem to have an arrogance about them that they didnt have before and consistency in officiating is lacking also.
I think that when they were still part time they were given more leeway within the game but now as full time professionals they should rightly be accountable for their performances.
Officiating is a thankless task but that doesn't mean they are exempt from criticism or that they shouldn't take on board what is being said and work towards a solution for the good of the game.


So in your two way street that post basically flowed in one direction.
We can be bold enough to make a stand and do battle for our views and beliefs. But we must strive to be mature enough not to resort to unnecessary personal attacks upon people with opposing views.
Re: Referees
Post Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:23 pm
Posted by reffy on Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:23 pm
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Chris71 wrote:
To be honest I think its a two way street in terms of respect. Whilst I oppose abusing the officials that does not mean they should be immune from criticism.
For me Ganson's input in the officials is telling but not in a positive way, they seem to have an arrogance about them that they didnt have before and consistency in officiating is lacking also.
I think that when they were still part time they were given more leeway within the game but now as full time professionals they should rightly be accountable for their performances.
Officiating is a thankless task but that doesn't mean they are exempt from criticism or that they shouldn't take on board what is being said and work towards a solution for the good of the game.


That comes across as a lecture to referees, the jist of which is ‘put up with it’.
Re: Referees
Post Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:31 pm
Posted by wrencat1873 on Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:31 pm
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bren2k wrote:
“I’ve seen examples of players trying to convince referees visually and verbally to rule against the opposition – for me, that’s not acceptable in Rugby League."

That's been going on for years - with certain high profile, "big name" players being repeat offenders; and whilst I agree with him that it's completely unacceptable, it could and should have been nipped in the bud years ago. It wasn't, so it's ramped up and become standard practice.

FWIW, I'd be entirely supportive of a scorched earth, zero tolerance attitude to dissent and referee abuse - and if that meant a couple of weeks of scrappy games, with players penalised and results affected, tough titty - that's on coaches and players, not referees; provided they are at least somewhat consistent with it, clubs would have no one to blame but themselves.


Bang on Bren.
Regardless of how bad they are, any criticism (apart for that of the fans) should be happening behind closed doors.
Can you imagine if every mistake that the players was magnified to the same extent as some of the officials calls.

I know that it gives the pundits something to talk about but, they need to be really careful about how they knock them.

Same for the coaches.

So many come on the TV saying "I know that I may be in trouble for saying this...…………… and as fans we want the coaches to be passionate about their club but, 99/100, in terms of errors, the ref performs better than the players.
Added to that, they have too much to keep an eye on.
If they are concentrating on getting players to move from the ruck, there will be players on their blindside creeping forward.
Most fans only see the wrongdoing against their side and never too much from their own.

As you say, zero tolerance for back chat and if it happens a second time, the yellow card needs to be shown.
The dissent would stop instantly.
Re: Referees
Post Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:32 pm
Posted by bewareshadows on Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:32 pm
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It's simple players have no reason to instigate the ref in conversation.

A players reply is yes sir or no sir.
We can be bold enough to make a stand and do battle for our views and beliefs. But we must strive to be mature enough not to resort to unnecessary personal attacks upon people with opposing views.
Re: Referees
Post Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:42 pm
Posted by bewareshadows on Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:42 pm
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wrencat1873 wrote:
Bang on Bren.
Regardless of how bad they are, any criticism (apart for that of the fans) should be happening behind closed doors.
Can you imagine if every mistake that the players was magnified to the same extent as some of the officials calls.

I know that it gives the pundits something to talk about but, they need to be really careful about how they knock them.

Same for the coaches.

So many come on the TV saying "I know that I may be in trouble for saying this...…………… and as fans we want the coaches to be passionate about their club but, 99/100, in terms of errors, the ref performs better than the players.
Added to that, they have too much to keep an eye on.
If they are concentrating on getting players to move from the ruck, there will be players on their blindside creeping forward.
Most fans only see the wrongdoing against their side and never too much from their own.

As you say, zero tolerance for back chat and if it happens a second time, the yellow card needs to be shown.
The dissent would stop instantly.



Yep and something similar for coaches blaming a loss on ref decisions
We can be bold enough to make a stand and do battle for our views and beliefs. But we must strive to be mature enough not to resort to unnecessary personal attacks upon people with opposing views.
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