Re: SL1 + SL2 : Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:47 pm  

unfortunately it may have taken over 20 years for people to realize maybe chairman Mo was right all along and the original model for super league was what we should have done gone for it and stuck to it. by now it may have been club union on its knees not the other way round. really can see another breakaway coming. the areas and teams that were proposed to merge well have any of them on there own actually had any success. out of the two Hull clubs Fc had to be bailed out by selling all the good work in the north east down the river and they have done not much moor than held there own since. none of the Manchester or adjacent areas sides have done anything except struggle,(do Oldham even play in Oldham anymore despite being an original super league side) warrington are going fine but widnes have suffered massively in the super league era. not sure i agreed entirely with how the first super league was proposed and compromises and common sense was needed, but we ended up with a massive cop out and more than half the original sides are gone.

original super league sides
London out
Bradford out
Paris SG gone
workington out
Oldham on life support for years
Halifax out but a vibrant championship club
Sheffield forced merger gone to save Huddersfield in sham merger.

that leaves Leeds saints Wigan warrington Castleford left from original super league.

geographical spread of super league got smaller appeal getting smaller.
BOLD CHANGES NEED MAKING.

Re: SL1 + SL2 : Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:35 pm  

rollin thunder wrote:

geographical spread of super league got smaller appeal getting smaller.
BOLD CHANGES NEED MAKING.

Yes....100+ years of heritage may get trodden on, but if we continue to allow small clubs with small minded owners and no ambition other than survival to run the business, then we will never prosper. We've let the tail wag the dog for too long......

By comparison West Hartlepool (2), Orrell, Bristol (4), Bedford, Rotherham(2), Harlequins, Leeds (3), Northampton, Worcester(2), Newcastle, London Welsh(2), London Irish (2) have all been left to be relegated in Union and rebuild on their own whilst their sport has got on with the business of making itself stronger.......three of the teams above are winners of the bloody thing but they were left to fend for themselves in the 2nd tier......clubs like Orrell and Bedford were on a footing with Leicester before open professionalism......but rather than let Orrell and Badford steer the game, they were cut adrift.....

....Mergers, licensing and central contracts for elite players with any team wishing to join the SL needing to be able to show a valid business plan to get to profit/self sustainability inside 5 years......cull the needy and hangers on, take games on the road to big cities and create some media razzmatazz. 14 team Superleague 13 Home games to generate £2 million.....10,000 fans at £16 a ticket and you're in.

Clubs need to merge or die. Clubs like Catleford, Wakefield and Featherstone need to come together, play in a new state of the art stadium and fill it with 20,000 fans week in, week out....sure, we might lose 20% of current fans, disgruntled and indignant at "their loss' but that still leaves 12,000 fans of the game that will support the new club......all the history of all three clubs can hang in the clubrooms and never be forgotten, but if we don't take action NOW, then we'll still discussing 2 new stadiums being build a 9 Iron apart from each other that neither club will ever fill in another 10 years......and that potential 12,000 fanbase will have shrunk to nearer 6,000....we are hemorrhaging cash and fans and we need drastic action.

Re: SL1 + SL2 : Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:54 pm  

Call Me God wrote:

10,000 fans at £16 & you're in.

Really ?
Is that the value of Pro RL ?

Clubs need to merge or die. Clubs like Catleford, Wakefield and Featherstone need to come together, play in a new state of the art stadium and fill it with 20,000 fans week in, week out....sure, we might lose 20% of current fans, disgruntled and indignant at "their loss' but that still leaves 12,000 fans of the game that will support the new club......all the history of all three clubs can hang in the clubrooms and never be forgotten, but if we don't take action NOW, then we'll still discussing 2 new stadiums being build a 9 Iron apart from each other that neither club will ever fill in another 10 years......and that potential 12,000 fanbase will have shrunk to nearer 6,000....we are hemorrhaging cash and fans and we need drastic action.

I suggest that figure would be nearer 60% of current fans.

Who would the London fans support ?
Who would London merge with ?

Re: SL1 + SL2 : Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:50 pm  

Ste100Centurions wrote:

I suggest that figure would be nearer 60% of current fans.

Who would the London fans support ?
Who would London merge with ?

If it comes down to being a selective SL, London will be first choice.

Re: SL1 + SL2 : Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:14 am  

Karen wrote:

When we went to Australia in February for the Hull tour we visited Penrith and it's a phenomenal set up now. There are several restaurants/bars, massive casino and outside area where you buy the meat and then cook it yourself. They were so welcoming and let us have a good look round and we were astounded by the sheer magnitude of it all.

Did they show you their 12 Million quid High Performance Training Facility which overlooks their new Training Field? Both completed in 2016 on a 40,000 sq metre site adjacent to the club. I visit the club every fortnight with my wife for lunch and we also go regularly to live shows there. We have been members for almost 20 years.

Re: SL1 + SL2 : Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:45 am  

Ste100Centurions wrote:

I suggest that figure would be nearer 60% of current fans.

fine then.....9k +4k +1k - 8,400 = 5,600 with a view to having a product in a state of the art stadium that ALL local people can go to.......I can assure you that the Calder TigerCatRovers would be at 10k quicker than the current three clubs will be.........and that's the point.....we as a sport don;t need the 8,400 bigoted tossers who know best, because they're the ones who've brought us to where we are now....pi55 off and watch amateur RL but stop holding the sport back!

I suggest that figure would be nearer 60% of current fans.[/quote]
Who would the London fans support ?
Who would London merge with ?[/quote]
Skolars.....hammersmith Hoists......I don't care, so long as the game stops dying on its feet!

Re: SL1 + SL2 : Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:12 am  

Ste100Centurions wrote:

I suggest that figure would be nearer 60% of current fans.

and to be crystal clear.......those 8,400 fans are no loss to the game if they can't see past their own front doors steps.....I am no fan of Toronto and their lies, but 5k in year 2 is better than 5k in year 140......and as much as I worry for their future, I reckon they won't die waiting for a new stadium for 20 years Like Wakefield/Castleford.....

Re: SL1 + SL2 : Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:12 am  

Call Me God wrote:

Yes....100+ years of heritage may get trodden on, but if we continue to allow small clubs with small minded owners and no ambition other than survival to run the business, then we will never prosper. We've let the tail wag the dog for too long......

By comparison West Hartlepool (2), Orrell, Bristol (4), Bedford, Rotherham(2), Harlequins, Leeds (3), Northampton, Worcester(2), Newcastle, London Welsh(2), London Irish (2) have all been left to be relegated in Union and rebuild on their own whilst their sport has got on with the business of making itself stronger.......three of the teams above are winners of the bloody thing but they were left to fend for themselves in the 2nd tier......clubs like Orrell and Bedford were on a footing with Leicester before open professionalism......but rather than let Orrell and Badford steer the game, they were cut adrift.....

....Mergers, licensing and central contracts for elite players with any team wishing to join the SL needing to be able to show a valid business plan to get to profit/self sustainability inside 5 years......cull the needy and hangers on, take games on the road to big cities and create some media razzmatazz. 14 team Superleague 13 Home games to generate £2 million.....10,000 fans at £16 a ticket and you're in.

Clubs need to merge or die. Clubs like Catleford, Wakefield and Featherstone need to come together, play in a new state of the art stadium and fill it with 20,000 fans week in, week out....sure, we might lose 20% of current fans, disgruntled and indignant at "their loss' but that still leaves 12,000 fans of the game that will support the new club......all the history of all three clubs can hang in the clubrooms and never be forgotten, but if we don't take action NOW, then we'll still discussing 2 new stadiums being build a 9 Iron apart from each other that neither club will ever fill in another 10 years......and that potential 12,000 fanbase will have shrunk to nearer 6,000....we are hemorrhaging cash and fans and we need drastic action.

The main difference between the success and relative faliure of Union and League, is the jewel in their crown, the 6 nations and during the professional era of Union, this has been the catalyst of all of their success, hyped up be all main stream media (and I'm not knocking them for this). Sadly, RL has nothing to come close to this and is unlikely to ever have.
Your merger plans must look great on your fag packet, however, the reality is that RL is not appealing enough to the masses (or the media) to allow your plan to work.
Unfortunately, with club loyalties so ingrained among most RL fans, you would actually lose fans from the game completely and you would need to replace these with people who currently dont exist.

Some serious investment marketing and getting some high profile celebrities on board would help but instead, our only "press" seems to be when players like Tomkins or Hardaker make the headlines, for all of the wrong reasons, which further damages the sports mickey poor image.

Our Aussie friends are more than happy with their own RL bubble and this on it's own will prevent any "meaningful" international fixture program and eventually, they may end up as the only serious RL nation.

Re: SL1 + SL2 : Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:16 am  

[quote="Call Me God"]fine then.....9k +4k +1k - 8,400 = 5,600 with a view to having a product in a state of the art stadium that ALL local people can go to.......I can assure you that the Calder TigerCatRovers would be at 10k quicker than the current three clubs will be.........and that's the point.....we as a sport don;t need the 8,400 bigoted tossers who know best, because they're the ones who've brought us to where we are now....pi55 off and watch amateur RL but stop holding the sport back!



Absolutely charming

Re: SL1 + SL2 : Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:05 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

The main difference between the success and relative faliure of Union and League, is the jewel in their crown, the 6 nations and during the professional era of Union, this has been the catalyst of all of their success, hyped up be all main stream media (and I'm not knocking them for this). Sadly, RL has nothing to come close to this and is unlikely to ever have.

Alas, it would seem that it easy to point at something like the 6 Nations as the reason that Union is as big as it is, but the reality is that the 4/5/6 Nations has existed for 135 years and over a similar period of time as RL has existed, has grown steadily. Even in the 70's when I was dragged to Landsdown Rd it was a big thing, but it wasn't the reason the we would also get 30,000 to a senior schools cup final. The old English County Championship Final used to see tens of thousands bus from Cornwall or Lancashire or Yorkshire to the final at Twickenham, the Varsity match used to fill TW2......The B&I Lions tours were major sporting events.......and at the same time, GB V Aussie in the RL tests and the Challenge Cup were as well supported and covered in the Media as any Union event......what's happened is that we've dropped the ball, pure and simple and rather than address this and hire someone(s) to pick it up and try and redress the balance, we sit there and say "it's not fair".

Mergers may seem like a drastic action, but 23 years into the SL era there are still people at the top of our sport that believe that "if you build it they will come".......but guess what, in terms of a new stadium for either Castleford or Wakefield, we have neither the new stadiums nor the fans flocking in any great numbers, with wakey down 31% on last year and Cas down 20%......is it reasonable for either club to be looking to build new stadiums separately?

So....let's not merge them, but for christ's sake at least look at sharing a stadium and then get the bloody thing built.

NEwildcat wrote:

absolutely charming

If you're making an omelette, it's pretty hard to do it without cracking a few eggs.....if folk can't see that 4,000 is unacceptable for SL club average, go back over 19+ years of "what do London bring" threads on these boards for a refresher course.

Wakefield are a lower half of the table side, playing out of a condemned site watched by an ever decreasing number of fans....this isn't my opinion, this is a reality. What do they bring to SL? 145 years of History doesn't pay the bills and neither does it appear to ignite the interest of the local residents who can't even half fill Belle Vue.

As I say, I am suspicious of Toronto and their claims, but surely....the minimum that needs to be considered is a stadium share rather than 2 White Elephants a bus ride apart?