Re: How can we help French RL? : Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:44 am  

snowie wrote: Anglo-French relations at Catalanshttps://www.loverugbyleague.com ... ossip-194/ Catalans are keen to add more English (or Welsh) players to their squad, as they look to shrug off their travelling woes, as well as helping their growing contingent of English players to settle in France. They risked the irk of Salford last week by making a move for Wales international prop Gil Dudson, a stand out in the Red Devils’ run to the Super League Grand Final. Of Catalans 26-man squad for the new season, 14 are French and six are English. Erm 14 + 6 doesn't equal 26. The number of first choice French players in Catalans first ever game was 9 out of the 17, that is down to 6 out of the 17. Should they get the Wigan centre they have enquired about and Gil Dudson that will drop to only 4 out of the 17 being French....... Current imports are listed as Mead, Tierney, S,Tomkins, Langi, J. Tomkins, Davies, Whitley, Moa, McCrone, Maloney and Drinkwater, as above their recent recruitment drive saw them enquire at Wigan for a centre and now Dudson for prop. If successful that will give them a whole overseas X111. The plan was for the Catalans to be pretty much the French International side. The plan is now for Catalans to be another Anglo-Aussie side. SO sentiment apart mon ami's what should we do with them?

snowie wrote: Anglo-French relations at Catalanshttps://www.loverugbyleague.com ... ossip-194/ Catalans are keen to add more English (or Welsh) players to their squad, as they look to shrug off their travelling woes, as well as helping their growing contingent of English players to settle in France. They risked the irk of Salford last week by making a move for Wales international prop Gil Dudson, a stand out in the Red Devils’ run to the Super League Grand Final. Of Catalans 26-man squad for the new season, 14 are French and six are English. Erm 14 + 6 doesn't equal 26. The number of first choice French players in Catalans first ever game was 9 out of the 17, that is down to 6 out of the 17. Should they get the Wigan centre they have enquired about and Gil Dudson that will drop to only 4 out of the 17 being French....... Current imports are listed as Mead, Tierney, S,Tomkins, Langi, J. Tomkins, Davies, Whitley, Moa, McCrone, Maloney and Drinkwater, as above their recent recruitment drive saw them enquire at Wigan for a centre and now Dudson for prop. If successful that will give them a whole overseas X111. The plan was for the Catalans to be pretty much the French International side. The plan is now for Catalans to be another Anglo-Aussie side. SO sentiment apart mon ami's what should we do with them?

Re: How can we help French RL? : Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:11 am  

Donnyman wrote:

Erm 14 + 6 doesn't equal 26. The number of first choice French players in Catalans first ever game was 9 out of the 17, that is down to 6 out of the 17. Should they get the Wigan centre they have enquired about and Gil Dudson that will drop to only 4 out of the 17 being French.......

Current imports are listed as Mead, Tierney, S,Tomkins, Langi, J. Tomkins, Davies, Whitley, Moa, McCrone, Maloney and Drinkwater, as above their recent recruitment drive saw them enquire at Wigan for a centre and now Dudson for prop. If successful that will give them a whole overseas X111.

The plan was for the Catalans to be pretty much the French International side. The plan is now for Catalans to be another Anglo-Aussie side. SO sentiment apart mon ami's what should we do with them?

Come on, you're just making stuff up to suit your own agenda.

There is no PLAN for Catalan to become an Anglo-Aussie side, although, just like EVERY other SL club, they are trying to be successful.
If there was, why would they have so many "Frenchies" in their squad and as for Catalan being" pretty much the French International side", nonsense. Of course they will provide the nucleus of the side but, again, you are twisting stuff to try and fit your narrative and as for " The plan is now for Catalans to be another Anglo-Aussie side", more nonsense.
Their PLAN is to be a successful Catalan Dragons side and just like EVERY other SL club, if this means signing more non French players, they will of course do so.
I agree that they perhaps should increase the number of "local" players in their squad and maybe they are working to do so, whilst at the same time, trying to be the best side that they can be.
I presume that your wish/plan is to jettison them from SL and replace them with Fev or Leigh, which is ok but, I think the comp would be poorer without them.

Re: How can we help French RL? : Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:20 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Come on, you're just making stuff up to suit your own agenda.

There is no PLAN for Catalan to become an Anglo-Aussie side, although, just like EVERY other SL club, they are trying to be successful.
If there was, why would they have so many "Frenchies" in their squad and as for Catalan being" pretty much the French International side", nonsense. Of course they will provide the nucleus of the side but, again, you are twisting stuff to try and fit your narrative and as for " The plan is now for Catalans to be another Anglo-Aussie side", more nonsense.
Their PLAN is to be a successful Catalan Dragons side and just like EVERY other SL club, if this means signing more non French players, they will of course do so.
I agree that they perhaps should increase the number of "local" players in their squad and maybe they are working to do so, whilst at the same time, trying to be the best side that they can be.
I presume that your wish/plan is to jettison them from SL and replace them with Fev or Leigh, which is ok but, I think the comp would be poorer without them.

It would be interesting to know Donnyman's thoughts on football in England, especially the Premier League.....

Re: How can we help French RL? : Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:13 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Come on, you're just making stuff up to suit your own agenda.

There is no PLAN for Catalan to become an Anglo-Aussie side, although, just like EVERY other SL club, they are trying to be successful.

If there was, why would they have so many "Frenchies" in their squad and as for Catalan being" pretty much the French International side", nonsense.

I have no real Agenda apart from wishing to see the North American dream be finished with, on the basis that they never delivered what they promised. They now pretend that they bring massive worldwide publicity to the game here and a series of equally mega rich NA clubs are still in the pipeline to complete that dream. I think you share my sentiments here......

As for Les Catalans they were accepted into Superleague with the primary aim of reviving international test match RL in Europe. In 2005 Aussie. Kiwis and Great Britain played out a six match "Tri-Nations" during which the French were given Test match status fixtures against Australia and New Zealand. The games were in Perpignan and Toulouse. The following year Les Catalans came into Superleague.

So if I am "making it up that they came in to bolster the French International team"... then I had better add that France were duly invited to play England at Headingley in 2007 to re-establish the International game between Great Britain and France. The French were poor on the day and went down 42-14 before nearly 13,000 spectators of which I was one.

Things never got better for the French, any complaints made to Les Catalans as regards their habit of not concentrating on French players or withdrawing them for selection for France was met with a reply that they had to compete in Superleague and could not possibly play an all French side otherwise they would just get relegated. The fact is the plan as formulated by Richard Lewis to have one French SL club so France could develop international players failed.

But there was no going back or kicking them out as the fans were having a great time on their "away days" to Perpignan, and Catalans were building a good club. Over the seasons we see less and less quality French players and at 34 Remi Casty will be the next to go. As the French game continues it's decline eventually it could be there are no French players in a team Catalans turn out as the balance between French and non french players slides towards that.

And the point is this, there are now enough imports for Catalans to put 13 players on the pitch and two on the subs bench if their intended signings come off who just aren't French.

And so when do a resurgent Bradford, Leigh, Newcastle or Widnes start to point the finger and say why are they in SL and we are not we are members they are just guests? Why do we have to run reserves and academies and Catalans do not??? . what are they for? I suggest this will come to a head with the new TV deal when the clubs will be after Catalans being removed - not me - the clubs whom they block from SL, the clubs who develop players when they don't.

Your "Agenda" crack is a very cheap shot and does you no favours. I have set out why I think Catalans will be under enormous pressure to step down under a new English TV deal, maybe you would do me the courtesy of reading why I think this, and replying with a sensible viewpoint.

Re: How can we help French RL? : Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:23 pm  

Donnyman wrote:

I have no real Agenda apart from wishing to see the North American dream be finished with, on the basis that they never delivered what they promised. They now pretend that they bring massive worldwide publicity to the game here and a series of equally mega rich NA clubs are still in the pipeline to complete that dream. I think you share my sentiments here......

As for Les Catalans they were accepted into Superleague with the primary aim of reviving international test match RL in Europe. In 2005 Aussie. Kiwis and Great Britain played out a six match "Tri-Nations" during which the French were given Test match status fixtures against Australia and New Zealand. The games were in Perpignan and Toulouse. The following year Les Catalans came into Superleague.

So if I am "making it up that they came in to bolster the French International team"... then I had better add that France were duly invited to play England at Headingley in 2007 to re-establish the International game between Great Britain and France. The French were poor on the day and went down 42-14 before nearly 13,000 spectators of which I was one.

Things never got better for the French, any complaints made to Les Catalans as regards their habit of not concentrating on French players or withdrawing them for selection for France was met with a reply that they had to compete in Superleague and could not possibly play an all French side otherwise they would just get relegated. The fact is the plan as formulated by Richard Lewis to have one French SL club so France could develop international players failed.

But there was no going back or kicking them out as the fans were having a great time on their "away days" to Perpignan, and Catalans were building a good club. Over the seasons we see less and less quality French players and at 34 Remi Casty will be the next to go. As the French game continues it's decline eventually it could be there are no French players in a team Catalans turn out as the balance between French and non french players slides towards that.

And the point is this, there are now enough imports for Catalans to put 13 players on the pitch and two on the subs bench if their intended signings come off who just aren't French.

And so when do a resurgent Bradford, Leigh, Newcastle or Widnes start to point the finger and say why are they in SL and we are not we are members they are just guests? Why do we have to run reserves and academies and Catalans do not??? . what are they for? I suggest this will come to a head with the new TV deal when the clubs will be after Catalans being removed - not me - the clubs whom they block from SL, the clubs who develop players when they don't.

Your "Agenda" crack is a very cheap shot and does you no favours. I have set out why I think Catalans will be under enormous pressure to step down under a new English TV deal, maybe you would do me the courtesy of reading why I think this, and replying with a sensible viewpoint.

You've gone from "pretty much make up the French national side" to "bolster".
Bolster, I agree with and some say that, because France are not competitive, Catalan is a failure.
I would argue that without many of their National side being in FT training and without Catalan, they would be further still down the pecking order.

Some of what you say regarding them needing to protect Catalan position, in preference to allowing their "whole squad" represent France is probably right and given some of their recent seasons, they may well have ended up even closer to the trap door of SL, had they not kept a few players back.

The stark reality for France is that, they haven't got a hope in hell of competing with England, maybe not in my lifetime but, with just one club in the top flight, how could they ?

As for the new TV deal, you may be privy to the thinking of Sky and those that run SL, I most certainly aren't.

I agree that, perhaps, Catalan should have a minimum number of local (club trained) players but, how many should this be and will similar rules apply to other clubs (in terms of club based players) or, would you set the bar lower for English clubs.

As for agenda, you do appear to be very strongly against Catalan and some of your spurious reasoning is just made up (for reasons that you are keeping to yourself).

For me, we should be thinking how the game can move forward and certainly not reversing back to being just an "M62" sport

IF and it's a huge IF, the sport needs clubs outside the "heartlands" to secure a sensible TV deal, then, there is a decision for the power brokers to make.
Either, put up the two finger sign and say, take it or leave it or, try and work to try and accommodate their needs

Certainly at it's inception, SL made great play of having a French side (Paris) and London in the comp and there were stated aims regarding attendances and facilities etc.

Attendances have declined, London have gone, come back and gone again and you want rid of The French.
Many clubs have improved their facilities dramatically (apart from Cas & Trinity). However, any plan for improving crowds etc, seemed to disappear long ago.
We had the desire to have X sell out fixtures etc but, this never happened and proved to be nothing more than words on a wish list.

There remains no long term plan for the game and we're left clutching at N. American straws for hope of salvation and without serious thought to how to establish the junior game over there, it will never succeed. For me, France is worth some more effort but, this perhaps needs to be conditional on Catalan working harder on their own production line.

As for Bradford, Leigh, Widnes and Newcastle, if they can make it to the top of the Championship, I'm sure that they will get their chance in SL, something that 3 of these clubs have had (and lost) in the not too distant past.

Also, you dont seem too concerned with some UK clubs sharing academies - why ?

Re: How can we help French RL? : Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:24 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Come on, you're just making stuff up to suit your own agenda.

.

Donnyman making stuff up?? Never!

Re: How can we help French RL? : Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:33 am  

[quote="Donnyman"]Well we are off again. I am supposed to provide hard documentary evidence to back anything I say whilst everyone else on the other side of the debate can wallow in an unsubstantiated dreamland. Not only that you seem to command me to provide "evidence" then you discount that evidence before I even give you it on the basis it is supposedly lies from "biased chairmen" you show me proof they are lying?? whilst they ring their Lawyers...
Thanks for your detailed reply.

Sorry Donnyman, that's not how discussion works. The person making the claims is the one who needs back up their opinions, it's not my job to disprove everything you say. If the world worked the other way round it means I could say new york will be the most successful club ever and you would have to disprove that. Doesn't make sense, does it?

I am only trying to understand your viewpoint on what Sky want because you reference it quite often. Therefore, there must be a source that you have come across that flags Sky's preference. Unless it is just your opinion, then your guess is as good as mine, in regards to the Sky broadcast deal and the future make-up of super league.

Re: How can we help French RL? : Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:05 am  

[quote="The Silent H" I am only trying to understand your viewpoint on what Sky want because you reference it quite often.]

Then you need to keep up and listen carefully, As Axe to Grind referenced it was Adam Pearson who said we could not have too many overseas clubs in SL because SKY needed a minimum of nine English clubs clubs for showing to the fans who pay the subscriptions. I can't help it if you just dip in and out of conversations or miss actual references Then it was Ian McManus who said "Dragons are not contributing to TV revenue" in League weekly. Do you purchase and read the RL press because if you don't that's your problem.

Re: How can we help French RL? : Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:10 am  

The Silent H wrote:

I'll start by saying that you need geographical spread across the competition.

The sport will not thrive if it contracts to small English towns playing in front of a few thousand people.

No sport that contracts back to it's heartlands and reduces teams is a healthy sport

Who said you need geographical spread for Superleague to work?? Reference please??

How do you know the sport will contract if it's only played across the M62 it seems to have been mainly played there for 124 years?? Reference please??

Who said that RL had contracted back to it's heartlands, when was it ever more than just a northern game? Reference Please??

Your hippocracy knows no bounds, you can spout the garbage above, I can tell you what Superleague bosses are saying.

Re: How can we help French RL? : Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:33 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

1. The stark reality for France is that, they haven't got a hope in hell of competing with England, maybe not in my lifetime but, with just one club in the top flight, how could they?

2. As for the new TV deal, you may be privy to the thinking of Sky and those that run SL, I most certainly aren't.

3. You do appear to be very strongly against Catalan and some of your spurious reasoning is just made up.

1. You can have half the League French but if they all field English/Aussie players they won't improve the french International side one bit will they?.

2. Your as privvy as I am to what SL bosses say about the SKY deal and the inclusion of France and Toronto in Superleague - tell me honestly do you buy and read League Express and League Weekly?

3. Reflecting that Superleague bosses have constantly said the French need to bring to the table (said to Toulouse by Lenegan reported in the RL press) home grown players and TV deals (also said to Toronto who promised to do that - Perez article in the RL press) does not make me "strongly against" anything.

Again do you buy the RL press every Monday and read up what is said by those who run the game?? I do read it all up. Maybe it's you that makes it up?