Re: Gumshield wearing, yea, nay & what benefit : Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:38 pm  

Always worn one particularly after an early stray knock to my teeth in another sport. Could never get on with the ones you boil. Never regretted the investment in one from the dentist. Whatever your comfortable with it is well worth it and avoids years and £££s of expense replacing lost or damaged teeth.

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Re: Gumshield wearing, yea, nay & what benefit : Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:55 am  

I wore one when I played at a higher level but when I dropped down to more social rugby I stopped, partly because I wanted to talk more and partly because I felt I could handle myself better at that level.
I didn't have a problem but equally I saw someone playing at the social level get his teeth knocked out by falling forward and hitting a knee in the tackle. 6 new teeth needed, so it is worth while

And as explained above it protects more than just your teeth as it strengthens your "face position" if hit.

Re: Gumshield wearing, yea, nay & what benefit : Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:30 pm  

If you don't wear one, I think you're a numpty. In the same way as cycle helmets aren't compulsory, I wouldn't dream of going out without one. Rugby league is a collision sport, your mouth will get a smack at some point so get it protected.

: Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:45 pm  

Tried a few out when I first started playing however found it very difficult to communicate with team mates while it was in my mouth. I never wore one after that, though I would hate to lose teeth so if I did go back playing I would look into maybe a thinner one that was easier to talk with.

Re: Gumshield wearing, yea, nay & what benefit : Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:10 am  

Thanks for all contributions and votes:D

easthullwesty wrote:

If you don't wear one, I think you're a numpty. In the same way as cycle helmets aren't compulsory, I wouldn't dream of going out without one. Rugby league is a collision sport, your mouth will get a smack at some point so get it protected.

This is exactly one of the main points I'm hoping to disprove, so called 'common sense' is actually causing more accidents and greater injuries through misunderstanding/misuse and actual limitations with the so called safety aid. Whether that be headguards in boxing, gumshields in rugby and helmets etc in other sports.

Wearing helmets in cycling for instance, at all levels including the pro peleton is one of the best examples with hard facts.
The statistics back up everywhere, more so in those countries that have compulsary helmet wearing such as Australia, NZ & parts of US that wearing a cycle helmet is actually detrimental to your health and from a population POV contributes to mass levels of unhealthy/obese populous.

Because the design perameters are so flimsy compared to the actual use (even at lower speeds) people take greater risks (risk compensation), thus blindly think that they are somehow going to be magically protected. The helmet mantra of ' a helmet saved my life' is just that, a mantra and has no real evidence to support it even though some medical types might have you believe it, they are NOT qualified to understand the physics behind the helmet & said limitations.
In the pro peleton there have being more deaths and head injuries since helmet wearing became compulsary than when it wasn't..go figure huh! IN AUS & NZ there have being a greater level of accidents & head injuries per cyclist/km than before helmet wearing became compulsary, in a time when car safety increased for its occupents and also for those outside the vehicle, yet head injuries became more frequent.

The test perameter of a cycle helmet for instance is a straight drop onto a flat surface at approx 12mph(drop test from 1.5metres), that is the pass/fail test for impact, if a helmet splits, it has failed (not worked as people falsely think). There are greater risks from rotational brain injuries, strangulation and even increases in concussion/brain injury through amplfying the injury due to the increase in the size of the head, not to mention not twonking your head in the first place due to said increase in size.

It's my thoughts that although there are some mouth injuries in rugby, a gumshield isn't all that protective of such & its main function is supposed to lessen jaw injuries & concussions, but how effective is a gumshield in reality? Does it actually really give the protection that players think it does and do they in turn behave/play with less care than if they knew it didn't or weren't wearing one at all?
Does the overall benefit of wearing a gumshield actually outweigh any negatives from a cold hard factual POV, not just anecdotal, single person incidents?

Certainly in cycling & boxing (where they've stopped using headgear in amateur's due to increases in concussions through wearing them) the statistics show that the so called safety aid is anything but and does actually make you worse off.
Not as applicable to RL but you've more chance of having a serious head injury and/or dying from such whilst walking/falling out of bed than whilst cycling yet no-one in a civilised society would consider wearing them for walking around (though in a let's blame the victim culture that is worryingly more frequent calls for walking helmets!!)

Given we are supposed to be looking at player wealthfare at all levels I'm very much interested in the role a gumshield plays and indeed scrum caps which might actually increase the chances of an injury or worse allow a player to play whom actually isn't fit to play..
I think the RFL if they are really serious about player welfare need to look at this type of thing, garner some real in depth stats and see what is best with regard to player protection, with or without.
Personally I played mostly without as I've stated and took the perceived 'risk' in what I beleive to be an area that has a less chance of an injury & where the gumshield would be of limited use in any case.
I'm also a non helmet wearer in cycling, never have and never will.
thanks again to everyone who has contributed so far..keep them coming

Re: Gumshield wearing, yea, nay & what benefit : Fri Aug 22, 2014 6:28 am  

I played both codes of rugby when I was a growing up for nearly a decade. I was never injured in any way and was probably hurt only a few times. I never wore a gumshield and to be honest I don't think I ever gave it any thought. In my mind it was simply not needed and I cannot remember anything ever happening during a game where I would have been helped by wearing one.

In terms of cycling it was pretty much the same. I never really needed a helmet so wearing one would have been pointless. Even though I had a BMX bike I was never any good at any tricks so didn't need one. I do remember one spectacular case of going over my handlebars because my front wheel locked for some reason. But I think even in that case it wasn't my head that needed protecting, it was my hands, arms and knees.

Re: Gumshield wearing, yea, nay & what benefit : Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:02 am  

When I played I always wore one. As a kid, the cheap molding type then as I got older I had them made for me through a dentist so that it fit exactly and never fell out. They are definitely worth it if you value your teeth. The cost of a well made gumshield or the cost of reconstructive dental work?

It all depends if you like to gamble...

Re: Gumshield wearing, yea, nay & what benefit : Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:57 am  

knockersbumpMKII wrote:

Thanks for all contributions and votes:D
This is exactly one of the main points I'm hoping to disprove, so called 'common sense' is actually causing more accidents and greater injuries through misunderstanding/misuse and actual limitations with the so called safety aid. Whether that be headguards in boxing, gumshields in rugby and helmets etc in other sports.

Wearing helmets in cycling for instance, at all levels including the pro peleton is one of the best examples with hard facts.
The statistics back up everywhere, more so in those countries that have compulsary helmet wearing such as Australia, NZ & parts of US that wearing a cycle helmet is actually detrimental to your health and from a population POV contributes to mass levels of unhealthy/obese populous.

Because the design perameters are so flimsy compared to the actual use (even at lower speeds) people take greater risks (risk compensation), thus blindly think that they are somehow going to be magically protected. The helmet mantra of ' a helmet saved my life' is just that, a mantra and has no real evidence to support it even though some medical types might have you believe it, they are NOT qualified to understand the physics behind the helmet & said limitations.
In the pro peleton there have being more deaths and head injuries since helmet wearing became compulsary than when it wasn't..go figure huh! IN AUS & NZ there have being a greater level of accidents & head injuries per cyclist/km than before helmet wearing became compulsary, in a time when car safety increased for its occupents and also for those outside the vehicle, yet head injuries became more frequent.

The test perameter of a cycle helmet for instance is a straight drop onto a flat surface at approx 12mph(drop test from 1.5metres), that is the pass/fail test for impact, if a helmet splits, it has failed (not worked as people falsely think). There are greater risks from rotational brain injuries, strangulation and even increases in concussion/brain injury through amplfying the injury due to the increase in the size of the head, not to mention not twonking your head in the first place due to said increase in size.

It's my thoughts that although there are some mouth injuries in rugby, a gumshield isn't all that protective of such & its main function is supposed to lessen jaw injuries & concussions, but how effective is a gumshield in reality? Does it actually really give the protection that players think it does and do they in turn behave/play with less care than if they knew it didn't or weren't wearing one at all?
Does the overall benefit of wearing a gumshield actually outweigh any negatives from a cold hard factual POV, not just anecdotal, single person incidents?

Certainly in cycling & boxing (where they've stopped using headgear in amateur's due to increases in concussions through wearing them) the statistics show that the so called safety aid is anything but and does actually make you worse off.
Not as applicable to RL but you've more chance of having a serious head injury and/or dying from such whilst walking/falling out of bed than whilst cycling yet no-one in a civilised society would consider wearing them for walking around (though in a let's blame the victim culture that is worryingly more frequent calls for walking helmets!!)

Given we are supposed to be looking at player wealthfare at all levels I'm very much interested in the role a gumshield plays and indeed scrum caps which might actually increase the chances of an injury or worse allow a player to play whom actually isn't fit to play..
I think the RFL if they are really serious about player welfare need to look at this type of thing, garner some real in depth stats and see what is best with regard to player protection, with or without.
Personally I played mostly without as I've stated and took the perceived 'risk' in what I beleive to be an area that has a less chance of an injury & where the gumshield would be of limited use in any case.
I'm also a non helmet wearer in cycling, never have and never will.
thanks again to everyone who has contributed so far..keep them coming

I get your point, but as someone who has gone through the windscreen of a car travelling at 30mph as a cyclist, my helmet undoubtedly saved my life. The wreck that was the helmet would have been my skull. I can say the same for gum shields, I suffered a fit after a particularly heavy blow to my head, clamping down hard. If my teeth had been bare, I would have bitten off the end of my tongue. As it is, 15 stitches later and I was fine. I do see where you are coming from, and agree that there is evidence to suggest that helmets can cause more harm, but in an everyday setting, with some of the drivers on the road, I wouldn't go out without one.

Re: Gumshield wearing, yea, nay & what benefit : Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:07 pm  

I always found it difficult to speak clearly with a gum shield in, but as a prop communication was never really a key requirement so it didn't matter. Many moons ago I was playing in a game and I got stiff armed in the face, and I actually saw star bursts like I was a cartoon character who had been bashed over the head. After the game when I took my shield out I found my jaw ached like mad, I dread to think what it would have been like had I not been wearing one.

[PopTart]

Re: Gumshield wearing, yea, nay & what benefit : Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:21 pm  

The problem with the cycle helmet example is that it isn't taking any other factors in to consideration.
If having helmets makes it safer on the roads, there will be a bigger population cycling, therefore a bigger population of injuries, even though many may have been saved injury
Same with the push to get people cycling from councils
More cars on the road
Faster bikes
Cycling in teh Olympics making it more popular
etc etc

To say that helmets may not be as safe as first thought, because the injuries have increased, is not showing the complete picture.
My son will not be cycling without one.