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Expansion of RL & French Teams Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:57 am  

User avatarBullseye wrote:
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Seems I'm unable to split threads anymore so I've posted some of the posts from the new signings thread below as it's a good debate and it deserved a thread of its own.

woolly07 wrote:
SL clubs will be delighted at having another club bringing no away support so they will all be hoping Fev make it.

Pumpetypump wrote:
I reckon Toulouse untaps greater SKY viewers and potentially better TV deals. I think that's got to be seen as being more important than the relative handful of Featherstone fans swelling home gates.

Bully_Boxer wrote:
Better TV deals? Toulouse have been around for long enough and Sky haven't shown much interest in broadcasting their matches before now.
I'm not sure what image it projects where we have to have the French sides in the English comp because their isn't enough players or sides to make up a competitive league in France. I guess it papers over a few cracks though and creates an illusion tha the game is expanding.

Bullseye wrote:
Well if you look at other sports then having some international club competition is seen as a benefit when attracting coverage and sponsorship. Now we're a million miles off this in RL so a couple of French clubs in SL is probably the best we can do at the moment. If we want to attract blue chip sponsors and not Foxy Bingo and Marrowfat Peas/Big Soup then we need to show we're not just a sport played by thick working class northerners.
Having Toulouse in the elite comp with Catalans helps give the game a less parochial look.

Bulls Boy 2011 wrote:
I think it could be good it Catalans and Toulouse can win their respective competitions.

Bully_Boxer wrote:
It's nonsense in RL though, the sport needs to prioritise getting the homelands strong. We've heard this all before with London.. presence in the capital is vital etc etc but they've generally been a joke moving from one place to another every season or so. Blue chip companies aren't going to look at RL with our without a couple of French side made up of a decent contingent of Aussies.

M@islebugs wrote:
45000 empty seats at Wembley exploded that myth for me. I don't quite get the RL's acute embarrassment at its own support base. There's something of the modern Labour party about it all.
I think this is interesting;
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/no-he ... per-league
Let's see what happens on Saturday night but at some point we need some evidence, i.e sold out stadiums with 'new' fans and TV deals increasing because of the draw of Les Catalans outside the heartland.
"If you start listening to the fans it won't be long before you're sitting with them," - Wayne Bennett.
Re: Expansion of RL & French Teams Tue Oct 05, 2021 12:06 pm  

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M@islebugs wrote:
There's something of the modern Labour party about it all.


Sort of. But how does the Labour party reconnect with quittling parts of the north like Wakefield and Leigh? The party machine knows brexit is a catastrophe for the working man and woman of the north. And yet the working man and woman of the north bloody love it. So either Labour lie about it and get them to come back, or they tell the truth and people keep voting blue which is exactly the same as taking a running kick at your own face.

Sorry. I'll shut up now.
Re: Expansion of RL & French Teams Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:37 pm  

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Pumpetypump wrote:
Sort of. But how does the Labour party reconnect with quittling parts of the north like Wakefield and Leigh? The party machine knows brexit is a catastrophe for the working man and woman of the north. And yet the working man and woman of the north bloody love it. So either Labour lie about it and get them to come back, or they tell the truth and people keep voting blue which is exactly the same as taking a running kick at your own face.

Sorry. I'll shut up now.


Why doesn't it explain to them that they're horrible idiots who don't understand their own best interests because I'm guessing that's never happened before?
Re: Expansion of RL & French Teams Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:42 pm  

Highlander wrote:
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Lots of definitions here. I'm happy with heartlands including York, Newcastle and Cumbria. Those 3 areas have either a large (NE) or wealthy (York) population and at least know what RL is. I'm not sure how a Cumbrian team gets into SL though as they currently are but that question has been rolling around for a long time.

In the short term, either Fev or Toulouse will get a shot. Toulouse are the better long term bet, as are Newcastle and York. Toulouse will not have financial issues, they'll have decent quality, wealthy sponsors lining up. They'll spend full cap immediately.

But they need to add value to the competition (crudely - what $$$ do the other clubs get) and that asks the questions - will there be higher value competition sponsors? will there be higher value TV deals in the combined pot? I think Toulouse now (sorry Fev) and then Newcastle in 2-3 years will increase value.
Pollsters doing Excellent job - say recent polls.
Re: Expansion of RL & French Teams Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:02 pm  

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Looking at how Catalans have developed into the best supported team in SL and the potential in the south of France (a heartland of the game) I think Toulouse could do very well. They're well financed and are far too too professional a setup for the championship.

I'm not sure York has the population and scope to be a successful SL club but they do things properly off the field in stark comparison with a few others including us and Fev. Cumbria is far too divided to ever get behind one team and that's what holds it back.

Newcastle will hopefully show what putting sound foundations in place can achieve. The game is growing there in contrast with some of the older "heartlands" and should be encouraged.
"If you start listening to the fans it won't be long before you're sitting with them," - Wayne Bennett.
Re: Expansion of RL & French Teams Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:00 am  

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M@islebugs wrote:
Why doesn't it explain to them that they're horrible idiots who don't understand their own best interests because I'm guessing that's never happened before?


That's sort of my point. They can't say that, and nor can they say with any credibility that leaving the EU was the right choice. They can't win. Anyway I'm not stamping my strong political views on here, I shouldn't have mentioned it.
Re: Expansion of RL & French Teams Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:15 am  

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Bully_Boxer wrote:
It's nonsense in RL though, the sport needs to prioritise getting the homelands strong. We've heard this all before with London.. presence in the capital is vital etc etc but they've generally been a joke moving from one place to another every season or so. Blue chip companies aren't going to look at RL with our without a couple of French side made up of a decent contingent of Aussies.


We need to strengthen our homelands I agree, but when there are genuine shoots of real expansion we need to really nurture it. Hemel was an example of a town where the game was actually being played in the schools (unthinkable!) and the future seemed really bright to get Hemel embedded into our league structure and growing. How did we manage to stuff that one up?! There's never going to be a better candidate for expansion and it was allowed to wither.
Re: Expansion of RL & French Teams Wed Oct 06, 2021 10:21 am  

User avatarBullseye wrote:
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We lost a load of development officers when we had a cut in Sport England funding IIRC. They do an invaluable job.
"If you start listening to the fans it won't be long before you're sitting with them," - Wayne Bennett.
Re: Expansion of RL & French Teams Sun Oct 10, 2021 11:37 am  

M@islebugs wrote:
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Sorry excuse my backward looking M62 myopia but 5 French players and swathes of empty seats. What is the upside? The French RL team is arguably worse than ever. If expansion means less people scattered over a greater geographical area then RL has achieved it.
Re: Expansion of RL & French Teams Sun Oct 10, 2021 2:21 pm  

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M@islebugs wrote:
Sorry excuse my backward looking M62 myopia but 5 French players and swathes of empty seats. What is the upside? The French RL team is arguably worse than ever. If expansion means less people scattered over a greater geographical area then RL has achieved it.

Hard to disagree. The sport is a mess at the moment and I don't see it getting better anytime soon with the current numpty Rimmer in the RFL hotseat and the SL clubs only voting whatever gives them the best short term gain.

Meanwhile whilst we are growing the game in France, crowds are dwindling over here and broadcasting deals seeing huge cuts. By all means, push for expansion but sure to god it has to be a position of strength rather than desperation.
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MINT RND: 1 France10-30England
WINT RND: 1 FRANCE4-40ENGLAND
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
National Rugby League 2021 ROUND : 25
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Melbourne 24 815 316 499 42
Penrith 24 640 280 360 42
Souths 24 775 453 322 40
Manly 24 744 492 252 32
Sydney 24 636 475 161 32
Parramatta 24 566 457 109 30
Newcastle 24 428 571 -143 24
Gold Coast 24 568 553 15 20
 
Cronulla 24 512 556 -44 20
Canberra 24 481 578 -97 20
St.George 24 474 616 -142 16
NZ Warriors 24 453 624 -171 16
Wests 24 500 714 -214 16
Brisbane 24 446 695 -249 14
NQL Cowboys 24 460 748 -288 14
Canterbury 24 340 710 -370 6
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
Betfred Super League XXVI ROUND : 25
 PLDFADIFFPTSDIFFWP%
Catalans 23 688 398 290 38 172.86 82.61
St.Helens 21 548 229 319 32 239.30 76.19
Warrington 21 588 354 234 31 166.10 73.81
Wigan 25 387 385 2 30 100.52 60
Leeds 24 556 440 116 26 126.36 54.17
Hull KR 20 497 458 39 20 108.52 50
 
Castleford 23 439 552 -113 22 79.53 47.83
Hull FC 21 409 476 -67 17 85.92 40.48
Huddersfield 24 460 516 -56 18 89.15 37.50
Wakefield 24 482 548 -66 18 87.96 37.50
Salford 22 402 586 -184 14 68.60 31.82
Leigh 22 356 870 -514 4 40.92 9.09
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
Betfred Championship 2021 ROUND : 20
 PLDFADIFFPTSDIFFWP%
Toulouse 13 616 112 504 26 550 100
Featherstone 19 817 254 563 34 321.65 94.74
Halifax 19 512 323 189 26 158.51 68.42
Bradford 18 483 455 28 24 106.15 66.67
LondonB 18 504 499 5 21 101 63.89
Batley 19 525 370 155 24 141.89 63.16
 
Whitehaven 20 447 496 -49 21 90.12 52.50
York 19 470 455 15 16 103.30 42.11
Widnes 19 458 509 -51 15 89.98 39.47
Newcastle 18 381 521 -140 13 73.13 36.11
Sheffield 18 382 553 -171 13 69.08 36.11
Dewsbury 19 308 570 -262 13 54.04 34.21
Oldham 19 270 691 -421 5 39.07 13.16
Swinton 20 354 719 -365 3 49.24 7.50
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
Betfred League One 2021 ROUND : 22
 PLDFADIFFPTSDIFFWP%
Barrow 17 596 275 321 27 216.73 79.41
Workington 15 471 310 161 21 151.94 70
Doncaster 18 503 400 103 24 125.75 66.67
Keighley 19 640 399 241 25 160.40 65.79
Crusaders 18 553 438 115 22 126.26 61.11
Hunslet 19 572 466 106 20 122.75 52.63
 
Rochdale 17 505 488 17 17 103.48 50
Coventry 17 407 460 -53 12 88.48 35.29
LondonS 18 292 577 -285 7 50.61 19.44
West Wales 18 208 896 -688 1 23.21 2.78
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
Betfred Womens Super League 2021 ROUND : 9
 PLDFADIFFPTSDIFFWP%
St.HelensW 7 370 36 334 12 1,027.78 85.71
WiganW 6 222 64 158 10 346.88 83.33
YorkW 6 186 102 84 8 182.35 66.67
CastlefordW 6 166 96 70 8 172.92 66.67
BradfordW 8 158 264 -106 6 59.85 37.50
Hudds W 7 104 288 -184 4 36.11 28.57
 
Wire W 8 150 334 -184 4 44.91 25
FeatherstoneW 8 122 338 -216 4 36.09 25
LeedsW 7 364 38 326 14 957.89 100
WakefieldW 7 50 332 -282 0 15.06 0
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