Re: Fans Forum : Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:27 pm  

paulwalker71 wrote: Wouldn't it make sense to make sure that such a 'scandal' is made known before the proposed Brereton takeover happens? If you are so convinced there is a 'scandal', then surely you have a moral duty to make sure it is known about, to prevent further disruption and financial pain to players and creditors alike. Agree Paul, but the authorities are involved at this time and therefore we cannot say anything presently as otherwise we may prejudice an ongoing enquiry. Apologies for the smoke and mirrors, but it is what it is. Despite being a good bloke with a decent track record, CB is being handed a number of poisoned chalices by his puppet master(s) and sadly we feel that it may only be a matter of time before it's curtains. Moreover CB claims that he left Wakey debt free. The accounts weblink below for Trinity's holding company as of the date of CB's departure from Trinity appears to say different. Total creditors amounting to circa £830K seems to look a long way off being truly debt free Chris !?: https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/docu ... fd1db77b8a

paulwalker71 wrote: Wouldn't it make sense to make sure that such a 'scandal' is made known before the proposed Brereton takeover happens? If you are so convinced there is a 'scandal', then surely you have a moral duty to make sure it is known about, to prevent further disruption and financial pain to players and creditors alike. Agree Paul, but the authorities are involved at this time and therefore we cannot say anything presently as otherwise we may prejudice an ongoing enquiry. Apologies for the smoke and mirrors, but it is what it is. Despite being a good bloke with a decent track record, CB is being handed a number of poisoned chalices by his puppet master(s) and sadly we feel that it may only be a matter of time before it's curtains. Moreover CB claims that he left Wakey debt free. The accounts weblink below for Trinity's holding company as of the date of CB's departure from Trinity appears to say different. Total creditors amounting to circa £830K seems to look a long way off being truly debt free Chris !?: https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/docu ... fd1db77b8a

Re: Fans Forum : Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:35 pm  

nestegg wrote:

Thanks for that clarification Bulliac.

We'll just treat the fact that we are in reality credible as a mere bonus lol

As for folk who say we have nothing to lose by outing ourselves. The fact is that we do have something substantial to lose, so until the time comes, which we hope will be before the start of next season, we will not reveal our identity over and above the hints already given.

One member did almost get it right in respect of the role of one nestegger. But given that most forum members incorrectly perceive that we are no more than malicious trouble causers then you can of course ignore us. So long as our truthful messages continue to be read by guest visitors to whom they are principally aimed, then we are content.

Hopefully, in time we very much hope that our fellow Bulls fans will also be content. Sadly, at this juncture the Bulls fans are allegedly about to be treated like fools for the 5th time in 6-7 years, i.e after Hood, OK, MG and AC. CB is different, but not different enough, and is sadly not being given the correct details re the true scale of the club's problems. As we've hinted at several times there's another scandal brewing involving circa £150K plus of allegedly misappropriated funds in respect of which CB is presently highly unlikely to be aware of. News of such an additional scandal should be reported upon within the next 3-4 weeks, if not sooner.

Can i ask, if CB is unable to obtain the correct details then how do you know what they are?

Re: Fans Forum : Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:43 pm  

nestegg wrote:

Agree Paul, but the authorities are involved at this time and therefore we cannot say anything presently as otherwise we may prejudice an ongoing enquiry. Apologies for the smoke and mirrors, but it is what it is.

Despite being a good bloke with a decent track record, CB is being handed a number of poisoned chalices by his puppet master(s) and sadly we feel that it may only be a matter of time before it's curtains. Moreover CB claims that he left Wakey debt free. The accounts weblink below for Trinity's holding company as of the date of CB's departure from Trinity appears to say different. Total creditors amounting to circa £830K seems to look a long way off being truly debt free Chris !?:

just so then you know correctly when Chris left Wakefield the only debts that were left were director loans, the club did not owe a penny to anyone other than the money owed to the directors had willingly loaned the business. this information is from CB

The current directors have taken a loan out from the council to secure the ground ownership but I can only assume that is the reason Chris chose to leave.

by the way if your adding a link you need to at least check it works properly first

Re: Fans Forum : Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:00 pm  

Sacred Cow wrote:

Can i ask, if CB is unable to obtain the correct details then how do you know what they are?

Good question.

We know because one nestegger is a 'whistleblower' who the legal chap is protecting, and this will remain to be the case until the authorities have concluded their ongoing enquiries for which the whistleblower is a key witness.

CB is likely to find out about this in say 2-4 weeks time, and bizarrely he will not find out about it beforehand because of the somewhat peculiar nature of the funds misappropriation. It relates to a matter which has been well hidden and is atypical (even by recent Bulls standards). The issue will therefore not at first (or even after repeated) sight(s) be obvious to Chris and his merry band of aspiring and potentially well meaning cost/ cloth cutters.

Hope that makes some sense. The key issue here is that we are not simply stirring things up for the sake of it. Our consortium contains a number of long standing Bulls fans and we have far far better things to do with our time than to merely promote troublesome speculation.

Re: Fans Forum : Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:09 pm  

But you are ‘promoting troublesome speculation’ - that’s all you’ve done!

Re: Fans Forum : Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:22 pm  

Since we're just making stuff up now to garner attention. I've heard that AC has a treasure chest of gold bullion stashed away under the dugout. I can't tell you how much though cos I'm protecting my whistleblower.

Re: Fans Forum : Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:31 pm  

nestegg wrote:

Good question.

We know because one nestegger is a 'whistleblower' who the legal chap is protecting, and this will remain to be the case until the authorities have concluded their ongoing enquiries for which the whistleblower is a key witness.

CB is likely to find out about this in say 2-4 weeks time, and bizarrely he will not find out about it beforehand because of the somewhat peculiar nature of the funds misappropriation. It relates to a matter which has been well hidden and is atypical (even by recent Bulls standards). The issue will therefore not at first (or even after repeated) sight(s) be obvious to Chris and his merry band of aspiring and potentially well meaning cost/ cloth cutters.

Hope that makes some sense. The key issue here is that we are not simply stirring things up for the sake of it. Our consortium contains a number of long standing Bulls fans and we have far far better things to do with our time than to merely promote troublesome speculation.

Strange that you don’t have far better things to do with your time than posting this rubbish on here.

Re: Fans Forum : Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:57 pm  

snowie wrote:

just so then you know correctly when Chris left Wakefield the only debts that were left were director loans, the club did not owe a penny to anyone other than the money owed to the directors had willingly loaned the business. this information is from CB

The current directors have taken a loan out from the council to secure the ground ownership but I can only assume that is the reason Chris chose to leave.

by the way if your adding a link you need to at least check it works properly first

Yes, snowie we know about the director loans; and they are not at first sight obvious based on the abridged accounts that are routinely published for rugby league clubs such as Trinity (and the Bulls).

Having spoken to a reliable source (not Mick the Gled btw !) we are however told that there were still some debts as of the date of CB's departure, as there are with most businesses. Therefore our source maintains that to allege that Trinity was debt free when he left may be a tad arrogant. Wakey is after all not a cash business.

Apologies for the weblink; it opens at our end snowie. Regardless, the historic Trinity accounts are easy to find on the Companies House website under 'Spirit of 1873 Ltd'.

Another anomaly in what CB claims appears to be as follows. If as may well be the case a substantial chunk of the creditors due sum in the Wakey accounts is in fact attributed to director loans then the so called £2M debt when in August 2013 CB and Carter took over from Michael Glover and Jimmy Elston may well be also somewhat of an exaggeration. We need to check early next week with our source but we presume that former Wakey directors, Glover and Elston, also had director loans which may have been in part transferred across to Carter and CB. We also understand that Michael C and Chris B were also involved in the club when it spiralled downwards in late 2012-2013, but not in a director capacity.

The estimated creditor sum when CB became a Wakey director in August 2013 (based on amended accounts up to 11/13) was circa £1.7M and as of 11/18 the sum was in fact circa £840K. Therefore it would appear that for CB to claim that he virtually single-handedly reduced 'the debt' by £2M - as has been claimed - may well be untrue or even a gross exaggeration. In any event it's an easy task for any numbers guy to look to do a formal (or even informal) CVA with a bunch of somewhat desperate creditors in particular for a struggling business, as Trinity was in late 2013, and as the Bulls are know, albeit the alleged criminal undertones at the Bulls (some of which are as of yet still unknown to CB) appear to be far more serious and murky at our club than was the case at Trinity.

As per the above what CB is in reality trying to do by simple cost cutting and (player) asset stripping is not rocket science. In respect of the many creditors (some of which are nesteggers) a number are toying a wee bit with CB and may be looking to play hard ball in part because Chris does not appear to be treating all creditors on a fair and equal basis. For example, Kappa are we understand being treated more favourably than some other creditors, in part because they were forewarned that the club was, and still is, a toxic brand. Such apparent diverging business practice by CB is not unlawful per se, but when creditors talk to one another (as they are doing re BB17) then in such circumstances many can get rightfully miffed when a party, such as CB, who is presently not even a shareholder of our business, starts trying to cut deals in somewhat of a purported underhand manner. The danger then is that at least 1-2 creditors may be so peeved that they elect to pull the WUP trigger, assuming they have not done so already.

Regardless of what is hypothesised above, what we surely need to see at the Bulls is some sight of a credible investor. Are CB and his pals willing to loan BB17 say £300K each on a director loan basis? We sure wouldn't. In fact as things stand we wouldn't even risk buying a season ticket via credit card or otherwise.

Yes, it's all a bit convoluted snowie, but we sense that you have some good insight and should be able to get your head around where we are coming from. If you still think we are talking boll..ks (pending re-connecting with our source re Trinity director loans per late 2013) then pl explain why that may be the case.

We, like many others, are in part on somewhat of a fact finding and exploratory mission in regard to certain aspects of the ever emerging Bulls jigsaw/ debacle.

On an aside it's worth mentioning that Michael (Carter) was, and still is, very much the visionary front of house man at Trinity; was, and still is, the main money man, and also played a significant part in turning around Wakey's fortunes. It was not all down to CB. At the end of the day MC and CB did, however, not see eye to eye, but some rumours we've heard of CB being accused of having his fingers in the till appear to be unfounded. That said, such past alleged sins may be an essential skill set for a new Bulls owner

Finally, returning to the update on our present creditors, we have a new one to add to the list. The Bulls club doctor is we understand owed £16K.

Re: Fans Forum : Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:56 pm  

nestegg wrote:

Yes, snowie we know about the director loans; and they are not at first sight obvious based on the abridged accounts that are routinely published for rugby league clubs such as Trinity (and the Bulls).

Having spoken to a reliable source (not Mick the Gled btw !) we are however told that there were still some debts as of the date of CB's departure, as there are with most businesses. Therefore our source maintains that to allege that Trinity was debt free when he left may be a tad arrogant. Wakey is after all not a cash business.

Apologies for the weblink; it opens at our end snowie. Regardless, the historic Trinity accounts are easy to find on the Companies House website under 'Spirit of 1873 Ltd'.

Another anomaly in what CB claims appears to be as follows. If as may well be the case a substantial chunk of the creditors due sum in the Wakey accounts is in fact attributed to director loans then the so called £2M debt when in August 2013 CB and Carter took over from Michael Glover and Jimmy Elston may well be also somewhat of an exaggeration. We need to check early next week with our source but we presume that former Wakey directors, Glover and Elston, also had director loans which may have been in part transferred across to Carter and CB. We also understand that Michael C and Chris B were also involved in the club when it spiralled downwards in late 2012-2013, but not in a director capacity.

The estimated creditor sum when CB became a Wakey director in August 2013 (based on amended accounts up to 11/13) was circa £1.7M and as of 11/18 the sum was in fact circa £840K. Therefore it would appear that for CB to claim that he virtually single-handedly reduced 'the debt' by £2M - as has been claimed - may well be untrue or even a gross exaggeration. In any event it's an easy task for any numbers guy to look to do a formal (or even informal) CVA with a bunch of somewhat desperate creditors in particular for a struggling business, as Trinity was in late 2013, and as the Bulls are know, albeit the alleged criminal undertones at the Bulls (some of which are as of yet still unknown to CB) appear to be far more serious and murky at our club than was the case at Trinity.

As per the above what CB is in reality trying to do by simple cost cutting and (player) asset stripping is not rocket science. In respect of the many creditors (some of which are nesteggers) a number are toying a wee bit with CB and may be looking to play hard ball in part because Chris does not appear to be treating all creditors on a fair and equal basis. For example, Kappa are we understand being treated more favourably than some other creditors, in part because they were forewarned that the club was, and still is, a toxic brand. Such apparent diverging business practice by CB is not unlawful per se, but when creditors talk to one another (as they are doing re BB17) then in such circumstances many can get rightfully miffed when a party, such as CB, who is presently not even a shareholder of our business, starts trying to cut deals in somewhat of a purported underhand manner. The danger then is that at least 1-2 creditors may be so peeved that they elect to pull the WUP trigger, assuming they have not done so already.

Regardless of what is hypothesised above, what we surely need to see at the Bulls is some sight of a credible investor. Are CB and his pals willing to loan BB17 say £300K each on a director loan basis? We sure wouldn't. In fact as things stand we wouldn't even risk buying a season ticket via credit card or otherwise.

Yes, it's all a bit convoluted snowie, but we sense that you have some good insight and should be able to get your head around where we are coming from. If you still think we are talking boll..ks (pending re-connecting with our source re Trinity director loans per late 2013) then pl explain why that may be the case.

We, like many others, are in part on somewhat of a fact finding and exploratory mission in regard to certain aspects of the ever emerging Bulls jigsaw/ debacle.

On an aside it's worth mentioning that Michael (Carter) was, and still is, very much the visionary front of house man at Trinity; was, and still is, the main money man, and also played a significant part in turning around Wakey's fortunes. It was not all down to CB. At the end of the day MC and CB did, however, not see eye to eye, but some rumours we've heard of CB being accused of having his fingers in the till appear to be unfounded. That said, such past alleged sins may be an essential skill set for a new Bulls owner

Finally, returning to the update on our present creditors, we have a new one to add to the list. The Bulls club doctor is we understand owed £16K.

I have know idea why you've gone to such in-depth about Wakefield accounts on here when it's Bradfords plight which is the main subject, sounds like your wanting to discredit CB for some reason which has nothing to do me as I've only passed on what he asked, congratulations on ruffling up more feathers pal

Re: Fans Forum : Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:06 pm  

snowie wrote:

I have know idea why you've gone to such in-depth about Wakefield accounts on here when it's Bradfords plight which is the main subject, sounds like your wanting to discredit CB for some reason which has nothing to do me as I've only passed on what he asked, congratulations on ruffling up more feathers pal

Thx for your muted response mate.

The comparison is valid and yes of course we are focusing on the Bulls' plight.

We have said many times that CB is a good guy. We just have good reason to believe that he and his so called consortium have not been shown a full hand of cards and appear to lack any meaningful financial clout. That's not his/ their fault. Moreover, they may well be being unduly influenced by others whose interest in the sustainability of our/ your great club may not be at the forefront of their minds.

We've been here so many times before; will we ever learn? It appears not