Re: Player | Stevie Ward : Sun Dec 06, 2020 9:13 pm  

All good news on here. I'm ringing the samaritans tomorrow.

Re: Player | Stevie Ward : Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:19 pm  

Lprhino wrote: Firstly I didn’t see the interview or show but if Stevie ward is of the opinion he has sustained a serious brain injury I would suggest he is somewhat misguided. Serious brain injuries are indeed serious and normally have huge cognitive, emotional and physical consequences. I am not saying he doesn’t have those but some context is important. Stevie ward appears to have ongoing consequences of concussion potentially repeated concussions which have caused some relatively minor brain injury. This is a fairly new area in terms of concussion protocol and HIA. Steve ward did not suffer a prolonged period of unconsciousness (more than 5-10 mins) I doubt he has any prolonged post traumatic amnesia although he could have some, he didn’t suffer a skull fracture from what was reported and I would be incredibly surprised if he had any evidence of neuroradiological abnormality including subdural haematoma, cerebral contusion and or hemorrhagic contusion. Those are some of the basic tools for classification under the Mayo classification criteria for head injury. The idea there would be some kind of litigation baffles me. Litigation over what? That the club didn’t follow HiA procedure? My recall was he had a head bang, went off and didn’t return and didn’t play again. Potentially the poor lad has long lasting impact from a concussive event, it can happen but it doesn’t happen often. Just think some perspective over him suffering some kind of major brain injury is a bit disrespectful to those who have or have family members who have suffered serious brain injuries. All in all very sad if he is going to retire due to this, but the idea there will be some kind of litigation seems absolutely ridiculous to me. I suggest you read this before making statements like you have above: https://www.ruck.co.uk/list-the-shockin ... d-careers/ https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... s-11112463

Lprhino wrote: Firstly I didn’t see the interview or show but if Stevie ward is of the opinion he has sustained a serious brain injury I would suggest he is somewhat misguided. Serious brain injuries are indeed serious and normally have huge cognitive, emotional and physical consequences. I am not saying he doesn’t have those but some context is important. Stevie ward appears to have ongoing consequences of concussion potentially repeated concussions which have caused some relatively minor brain injury. This is a fairly new area in terms of concussion protocol and HIA. Steve ward did not suffer a prolonged period of unconsciousness (more than 5-10 mins) I doubt he has any prolonged post traumatic amnesia although he could have some, he didn’t suffer a skull fracture from what was reported and I would be incredibly surprised if he had any evidence of neuroradiological abnormality including subdural haematoma, cerebral contusion and or hemorrhagic contusion. Those are some of the basic tools for classification under the Mayo classification criteria for head injury. The idea there would be some kind of litigation baffles me. Litigation over what? That the club didn’t follow HiA procedure? My recall was he had a head bang, went off and didn’t return and didn’t play again. Potentially the poor lad has long lasting impact from a concussive event, it can happen but it doesn’t happen often. Just think some perspective over him suffering some kind of major brain injury is a bit disrespectful to those who have or have family members who have suffered serious brain injuries. All in all very sad if he is going to retire due to this, but the idea there will be some kind of litigation seems absolutely ridiculous to me. I suggest you read this before making statements like you have above: https://www.ruck.co.uk/list-the-shockin ... d-careers/ https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... s-11112463

Re: Player | Stevie Ward : Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:08 pm  

kjrhino wrote: I suggest you read this before making statements like you have above: https://www.ruck.co.uk/list-the-shockin ... d-careers/ https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... s-11112463 And look at the Dementia related deaths in football , widely being linked to heading the ball, Jack Charlton, Jeff Astle, Nobby Stiles In the US, the NFL paid $755 million to settle claims relating to ‘the league’s once lackadaisical approach to concussions and head injuries.’ https://www.brain-injury-law-center.com ... y-lawsuit/

kjrhino wrote: I suggest you read this before making statements like you have above: https://www.ruck.co.uk/list-the-shockin ... d-careers/ https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... s-11112463 And look at the Dementia related deaths in football , widely being linked to heading the ball, Jack Charlton, Jeff Astle, Nobby Stiles In the US, the NFL paid $755 million to settle claims relating to ‘the league’s once lackadaisical approach to concussions and head injuries.’ https://www.brain-injury-law-center.com ... y-lawsuit/

Re: Player | Stevie Ward : Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:02 am  

kjrhino wrote: I suggest you read this before making statements like you have above: https://www.ruck.co.uk/list-the-shockin ... d-careers/ https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... s-11112463 Firstly, that is not a medical journal. Secondly, the majority of those players have sustained multiple concussive events, some over short periods of time. Thirdly, what is being described falls within the bracket of post concussive of post concussion syndrome. Although technically not many medics like that tag or diagnosis any longer. PCS usually involves lingering effects post concussive event. Normally headaches, dizziness and fatigue. Symptoms can last days, weeks or indefinitely in some cases. Normally the treatment is rest, although medical evidence suggests that can actually prolong the psychological elements of PCS. The significance of any singular concussive event is not thought to determine the likelihood of if you go in to develop PCS or not. Theoretically anybody who sustains a concussive event can at risk of developing PCS, several of the symptoms mirror those of anxiety, depression and post traumatic stress disorder. Some medical specialists in the field believe those with pre-existing psychiatric conditions are more likely to develop PCS. If you have ongoing effects of PCS or want to avoid a further concussive event then you avoid contact sport injuries. Fourthly, any concussive event is theoretically a mild traumatic brain injury. It normally has a concussion lasting a couple of seconds or no concussion at all. I have sustained a mild traumatic brain injury as I have been knocked out before or banged my head and felt dazed for a short period. Moderate or serious traumatic brain injuries fulfil criteria I set out in my previous post. Mayo classification being one of the more popular measurement tools, the other being Glasgow coma score/scale out of 15. There is such a difference between contact sport concussive events, lingering PCS symptoms and avoiding further injury by not playing any more and a moderate or severe traumatic brain injury. The first probably has some element of psychological overlay and is a preventative method to avoid further or repeated trauma. The second is a significant traumatic event that most likely causes irreversible structural damage to your brain. That damage causes a whole myriad of differing symptoms. Yes some of those symptoms will be like those from PCS but there will be other far more intrusive. There is probably a clear organic reason for the ongoing symptoms. Usually the cognitive impact will be assessed via neuropsychological testing. Ward and other players have had concussive events, more medical testing is needed on that. However my point still stands in that he didn’t sustain multiple concussive events in a short time, he didn’t have a concussive event and go back on and have another. RL generally has decent head injury protocol. I don’t know what Ward has, however it seems unlikely given we can work out some of his Mayo classification score he has a moderate or severe brain injury. He has lingering ongoing effects of a concussive event. Yes that is awful, yes it is awful he has to retire but those symptoms are thought to have some basis in psychological issues and the reason for not playing is to ensure you don’t suffer further trauma. If you have a moderate to severe brain injury highly highly unlikely you could even play if you were prepared to take the risk. If you have a serious brain injury I imagine a player who suffered a singular concussive event and retires saying I have a major brain injury would be a bit frustrating as by any medical terminology I don’t think it is that. The other guy who posted on dementia, that is a totally different neurological condition. Yes repeated heading of a heavy object most likely would increase your risk. Not hugely relevant to ward, RL or this discussion. Listen I said I think it is awful he has to retire, that any sportsman has to retire, in particular due to any kind of concussion. I have real sympathy for him and all those other players who have retired. Just think it is important some perspective is given on why they are retiring and using the correct terminology to describe what is going on, whilst still accepting it is an evolving area.

kjrhino wrote: I suggest you read this before making statements like you have above: https://www.ruck.co.uk/list-the-shockin ... d-careers/ https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... s-11112463 Firstly, that is not a medical journal. Secondly, the majority of those players have sustained multiple concussive events, some over short periods of time. Thirdly, what is being described falls within the bracket of post concussive of post concussion syndrome. Although technically not many medics like that tag or diagnosis any longer. PCS usually involves lingering effects post concussive event. Normally headaches, dizziness and fatigue. Symptoms can last days, weeks or indefinitely in some cases. Normally the treatment is rest, although medical evidence suggests that can actually prolong the psychological elements of PCS. The significance of any singular concussive event is not thought to determine the likelihood of if you go in to develop PCS or not. Theoretically anybody who sustains a concussive event can at risk of developing PCS, several of the symptoms mirror those of anxiety, depression and post traumatic stress disorder. Some medical specialists in the field believe those with pre-existing psychiatric conditions are more likely to develop PCS. If you have ongoing effects of PCS or want to avoid a further concussive event then you avoid contact sport injuries. Fourthly, any concussive event is theoretically a mild traumatic brain injury. It normally has a concussion lasting a couple of seconds or no concussion at all. I have sustained a mild traumatic brain injury as I have been knocked out before or banged my head and felt dazed for a short period. Moderate or serious traumatic brain injuries fulfil criteria I set out in my previous post. Mayo classification being one of the more popular measurement tools, the other being Glasgow coma score/scale out of 15. There is such a difference between contact sport concussive events, lingering PCS symptoms and avoiding further injury by not playing any more and a moderate or severe traumatic brain injury. The first probably has some element of psychological overlay and is a preventative method to avoid further or repeated trauma. The second is a significant traumatic event that most likely causes irreversible structural damage to your brain. That damage causes a whole myriad of differing symptoms. Yes some of those symptoms will be like those from PCS but there will be other far more intrusive. There is probably a clear organic reason for the ongoing symptoms. Usually the cognitive impact will be assessed via neuropsychological testing. Ward and other players have had concussive events, more medical testing is needed on that. However my point still stands in that he didn’t sustain multiple concussive events in a short time, he didn’t have a concussive event and go back on and have another. RL generally has decent head injury protocol. I don’t know what Ward has, however it seems unlikely given we can work out some of his Mayo classification score he has a moderate or severe brain injury. He has lingering ongoing effects of a concussive event. Yes that is awful, yes it is awful he has to retire but those symptoms are thought to have some basis in psychological issues and the reason for not playing is to ensure you don’t suffer further trauma. If you have a moderate to severe brain injury highly highly unlikely you could even play if you were prepared to take the risk. If you have a serious brain injury I imagine a player who suffered a singular concussive event and retires saying I have a major brain injury would be a bit frustrating as by any medical terminology I don’t think it is that. The other guy who posted on dementia, that is a totally different neurological condition. Yes repeated heading of a heavy object most likely would increase your risk. Not hugely relevant to ward, RL or this discussion. Listen I said I think it is awful he has to retire, that any sportsman has to retire, in particular due to any kind of concussion. I have real sympathy for him and all those other players who have retired. Just think it is important some perspective is given on why they are retiring and using the correct terminology to describe what is going on, whilst still accepting it is an evolving area.

Re: Player | Stevie Ward : Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:36 am  

Lprhino wrote: The other guy who posted on dementia, that is a totally different neurological condition. Yes repeated heading of a heavy object most likely would increase your risk. Not hugely relevant to ward, RL or this discussion. We keep hearing that the players are getting bigger, faster, the impacts are harder, granted scrums are a different beast in RU, and rucks are another potential collision point in RU, but tackling and the impacts that come in both codes are much the same. So based on that these sorts of stories have to be relevant to all of RL too, as was the NRL payout. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/55208227 https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/55201237

Lprhino wrote: The other guy who posted on dementia, that is a totally different neurological condition. Yes repeated heading of a heavy object most likely would increase your risk. Not hugely relevant to ward, RL or this discussion. We keep hearing that the players are getting bigger, faster, the impacts are harder, granted scrums are a different beast in RU, and rucks are another potential collision point in RU, but tackling and the impacts that come in both codes are much the same. So based on that these sorts of stories have to be relevant to all of RL too, as was the NRL payout. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/55208227 https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/55201237

Re: Player | Stevie Ward : Fri Dec 18, 2020 11:16 am  

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/55356802 Thoughts

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/55356802 Thoughts

Re: Player | Stevie Ward : Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:42 am  

christopher wrote:

What’s the point in posting that Marty? if you’ve got info post it?

Attention. That's why.

Re: Player | Stevie Ward : Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:26 am  

Bang wrote:

Attention. That's why.

Worked then.

Or maybe it was to inforn you all theres an issue while not giving away any info as instructed by person who told me.

Re: Player | Stevie Ward : Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:28 am  

Does Sam Walters still live in the Widnes area? That could be the problem...

Re: Player | Stevie Ward : Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:30 pm  

Marty Grrrrrrrrrr! wrote:

Worked then.

Or maybe it was to inforn you all theres an issue while not giving away any info as instructed by person who told me.

is this an issue bad enough not to be a Rhino next season?