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Re: Relegation Sat May 25, 2019 4:32 pm  

User avatarKaeruJim wrote:
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I agree with Marty generally. The lowest NRL club is still significantly stronger then the strongest SL club financially. The NRL is a premier sport in Aus.

There is absolutely no way even Leeds could afford to assemble a squad on a par with an NRL side now, or in the foreseeable future.

Another elephant in this room is the marquee ruling, which blows the salary cap apart already. How many clubs can afford to use it now? Even Leeds have pushed it to sign players who were on the outer in the NRL. Let’s get real here.

It’s really chicken and egg: money the fund quality, quality to bring the money in.
Re: Relegation Sat May 25, 2019 4:45 pm  

User avatarGotcha wrote:
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KaeruJim wrote:
I agree with Marty generally. The lowest NRL club is still significantly stronger then the strongest SL club financially. The NRL is a premier sport in Aus.

There is absolutely no way even Leeds could afford to assemble a squad on a par with an NRL side now, or in the foreseeable future.

Another elephant in this room is the marquee ruling, which blows the salary cap apart already. How many clubs can afford to use it now? Even Leeds have pushed it to sign players who were on the outer in the NRL. Let’s get real here.

It’s really chicken and egg: money the fund quality, quality to bring the money in.


What does the NRL have to do with our Comp though? The only relevant point is that the NRL increased their cap and it enhanced their competition, and restricted those leaving to union.

What we need to concentrate on is our own, and trying to get a quality product to ensure it keeps going, and has a future. Something very much at risk. Whilst ever we continue ignoring this, the longer it becomes to fix. Much the same as how Leeds is run. The only way of obtaining quality investment is speculating first and give those investing a product worthy. And I include fans as an investor.
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Re: Relegation Sat May 25, 2019 5:08 pm  
Marty Grrrrrrrrrr! Bronze RLFANS Member
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Gotcha to invest/speculate you have to have something to invest/speculate with. You have already said not many teams run at a profit.

You said the NRL increased their cap massively and it hasn't done them any harm but they had a billion dollar TV deal signed. They didnt increase their cap to gamble on their future they increased it cos the teams could afford it.

To say the NRL has nothing to do with our competition when so many players from each team in SL is filled with ex NRL players seems ludicrous. The top rated players can now stay in the NRL because the cap has been raised and so the quality of import to SL is lower so it has a big impact on our competition.

Any increase on our cap would be a financial gamble and still would not attract top Union players, would not attract top NRL players and would stop SL players wanting to go to the NRL so the player pool wouldn't increase.

Ever since you and I have watched RL the game has been dieing and on its last legs yet it's still going.
Re: Relegation Sat May 25, 2019 5:29 pm  
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Our problem is that NRL isn’t a spectator sport it’s a TV sport. Aussie Rules is a spectator sport not a TV sport, that’s why you see the huge crowds at AFL but the TV money goes to NRL. Superleague is really a spectator sport and until it becomes a TV sport you can forget salary cap increases.
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Re: Relegation Sat May 25, 2019 6:32 pm  

User avatarGotcha wrote:
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Marty Grrrrrrrrrr! wrote:
Gotcha to invest/speculate you have to have something to invest/speculate with. You have already said not many teams run at a profit.

You said the NRL increased their cap massively and it hasn't done them any harm but they had a billion dollar TV deal signed. They didnt increase their cap to gamble on their future they increased it cos the teams could afford it.

To say the NRL has nothing to do with our competition when so many players from each team in SL is filled with ex NRL players seems ludicrous. The top rated players can now stay in the NRL because the cap has been raised and so the quality of import to SL is lower so it has a big impact on our competition.

Any increase on our cap would be a financial gamble and still would not attract top Union players, would not attract top NRL players and would stop SL players wanting to go to the NRL so the player pool wouldn't increase.

Ever since you and I have watched RL the game has been dieing and on its last legs yet it's still going.



There is a few inaccuracies there Marty.

Just because teams do not run at a profit, does not mean they can not speculate or improve the product. It doesn’t revolve around profit. Changing what the spending is on for a start. This is where business knowledge comes in, and pick up on your point of should be run like a business.

I didn’t say the NRL increased its cap and not done any harm. You have read the wrong angle there. I said they had increased their cap and its has enhanced the game over there. Because now they can afford to raid other comps and other sports, and keep their top players from the opposite.

The point on the NRL having nothing to do with our comp wasn’t in terms of how much finance they have. As long as we are paying our own players what they are worth then we will succeed. It isn’t about bringing Aussies over, it’s about keeping our own.

I completely disagree on your point of what the cap wouldn’t do, and believe it is without any foundation, and defeatist.

I have been watching since 78, and I disagree that the game has always been dying. But I strongly believe that I have never seen such a poor quality across all its teams as I see now. I just watched a really poor Huddersfield team hammer an Hull team that has recently beat two of the top teams. That Hull team would have struggled to beat a league 1 team today. It’s embarrassing to see this. It needs to change.
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Re: Relegation Sat May 25, 2019 6:45 pm  

User avatarRHINO-MARK wrote:
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We can all argue about why where and how but the responsibility to improve the game/brand/clubs lays purely with the Clubs themselves and the RFL.
We can't keep having separate factions to start with the SL RFL and the rest of the game need to be under 1 controlling body imo.
Of course when negotiating tv deals and sponsorship the contracts will be separate from the SL CC and lower leagues but the sport as a whole needs to be going in 1 direction as one.
My own pov is IF Clubs can show proof they can afford to invest more in their squads then so be it there is no way Teams should be held back if they can afford to be better.
I'd also re-think the imports set up i.e 5 overseas allowed and that's it no non fed loophole etc.
A minimum of 18 home grown players in SL Clubs 35 man squads.
Also certain "rules2 need addressing i.e this guessing about a try or not just a simple ? to the VR Try yes or no. Also this obstruction rule is a farce as is the ptb and players diving.
VR at EVERY game no need for the we cant afford it SKY sponsor us so get them to provide the cameras the off duty Refs/ex players can do VR duties.
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Re: Relegation Mon May 27, 2019 12:23 am  

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Realistically we can't increase the cap far enough to sign top flight NRL or RU players en masse. Even doubling the cap would mean we might pick up a few better NRL players but not much else beyond what the current marquee rules allow. The main difference might be in stopping players leaving for the NRL/RU.

So if we were to increase the cap, where would the money go apart from lining the pockets of existing players? I don't see any point in increasing the cap significantly without forcing clubs to spend on junior development, because that's where we're going to get 90% of our players from.

If you told any SL side they have 100% more to spend today, the first thing that would happen is all the existing players would have their hands out wanting rises. For zero benefit to the game. That's why you have to be very careful about increases and how they are managed.
Re: Relegation Mon May 27, 2019 7:09 am  
Marty Grrrrrrrrrr! Bronze RLFANS Member
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BrisbaneRhino wrote:
Realistically we can't increase the cap far enough to sign top flight NRL or RU players en masse. Even doubling the cap would mean we might pick up a few better NRL players but not much else beyond what the current marquee rules allow. The main difference might be in stopping players leaving for the NRL/RU.

So if we were to increase the cap, where would the money go apart from lining the pockets of existing players? I don't see any point in increasing the cap significantly without forcing clubs to spend on junior development, because that's where we're going to get 90% of our players from.

If you told any SL side they have 100% more to spend today, the first thing that would happen is all the existing players would have their hands out wanting rises. For zero benefit to the game. That's why you have to be very careful about increases and how they are managed.


Stop talking sense. This isn't the place for that.
Re: Relegation Mon May 27, 2019 8:26 am  

User avatarKaeruJim wrote:
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At the moment it seems like we have become an active nursery for the NRL. Young lads coming through are hoping to raise their profile enough to get an offer from Aus. That’s actually pretty good for the national side in the medium term, but I’m not sure how sustainable that leaves domestic RL.

End of the day, if we want a competitive sport, older community-based clubs are going to have to increase interest. Otherwise for me we’re back into franchising.

Due to the demographic and commercial landscape in England, RL has some very serious challenges. The fixes are complex and in places too big.

One thing the game does need is Leadership with one vision, rather than a collection of egos waving their willies and acting in short term self interest.
Re: Relegation Mon May 27, 2019 10:02 am  

User avatarThe Eagle wrote:
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Location: Nottingham. 800 years ago outlaws stole from the rich. Little has changed here

The game is poorly run from the top in this country.

At the grass roots level there is passion and dedication to the game. At the top level there is no vision, no planning and no money.

The professional game is in a battle to stay alive in this country in the next decade
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