Re: Getting left behind? : Tue Oct 21, 2014 1:37 pm  

The other day I viewed some of my old recordings of the team when we were in our prime.
With Senior at his best and Webb before he got a bit petulant . Also Mc Guire before he lost his pace.
I thought at the time we were superb, I was wrong we weren't just superb we were absolutely dynamic .
To build another team similar to that I would think under the present structure ,would be very difficult .

Re: Getting left behind? : Tue Oct 21, 2014 1:55 pm  

El Diablo wrote:

Lies, damned lies and statistics. In almost all cases, the better results were at the start of the season. As has been well documented, the '11 and '12 vintage got the job done when it counted. The '14 incarnation did not.

The 2014 incarnation did not get the job done this time as far as the SL title is concerned but did finally get the job done in the CC seeing off eventual champions Saints, Wire and Cas which also has to be taken into consideration when evaluating this year. If that crazy last minute error had not have happened against the Dragons there is every chance we would have gone on to OT again looking at the way the play off series panned out after we were eliminated.It was a missed opportunity for sure, we could be all on here now still toasting a wonderful double, it really is fine line between success and failure.

a simple question -If we had picked up the routine 6 points we should have picked up against the Bulls,London (which i beleive we have if not fo CC) and Hull in the last few games and finished top 2 but failed to win the title, would people still be so downbeat?

Re: Getting left behind? : Tue Oct 21, 2014 2:01 pm  

It would be hard because the likes of Webb and possibly even Lauititi (who was a bit troubled but had not urinated on his dog in public) would not come over in the present market, and Dave Furner wouldn't have been here either.

Add to that the question of how long it must have been since a team won the GF with home-grown players at 6,7,9 and 13, let alone keep that axis together for 4 titles in 6 years.. It isn't just Leeds that will probably never produce a crop of players of that quality that close together in those key positions again. Even with all the right structures, the success of the academy production line in those few years was extraordinary. 10 of our 2004 GF 17 came through the academy. By the end of the 2009 season you could add Lee Smith, Carl Ablett, Ryan Hall, Nick Scruton and Luke Burgess to the list. That's an extraordinary number of winners medals straight from the academy. It's been great, but it's not replicable.

Re: Getting left behind? : Tue Oct 21, 2014 2:05 pm  

Biff Tannen wrote:

The 2014 incarnation did not get the job done this time as far as the SL title is concerned but did finally get the job done in the CC seeing off eventual champions Saints, Wire and Cas which also has to be taken into consideration when evaluating this year. If that crazy last minute error had not have happened against the Dragons there is every chance we would have gone on to OT again looking at the way the play off series panned out after we were eliminated.It was a missed opportunity for sure, we could be all on here now still toasting a wonderful double, it really is fine line between success and failure.

a simple question -If we had picked up the routine 6 points we should have picked up against the Bulls,London (which i beleive we have if not fo CC) and Hull in the last few games and finished top 2 but failed to win the title, would people still be so downbeat?

Probably not. Finishing 2nd, with a pot in the bank and a bit of late season form would make things look different. But if my auntie had balls she'd be my uncle. The trouble with living by the "doing it when it matters" approach is that you have nothing to fall back on when you don't do it when it matters.

In any case, in evaluating this year, I don't think it was such a terrible year. It's my expectations an optimism for next year that's the concern for me. And I am usually (see, well, most of my posts) quite optimistic about this sort of thing.

Re: Getting left behind? : Tue Oct 21, 2014 2:13 pm  

Last year cannot be viewed as anything but a success. We won one of only 2 real trophies on offer. What was dissapointing was the second half of the season when the rot kicked in and the future looks less and less rosy as you realise the players a lot of them are on the dip. Don't think we will be right out of the reckoning but will certainly be battling for 4th place at best in my opinion.
Even the Wigan chairman has discounted the Leeds team alluding to the threats as wire and sts

Re: Getting left behind? : Tue Oct 21, 2014 2:15 pm  

El Diablo wrote:

It would be hard because the likes of Webb and possibly even Lauititi (who was a bit troubled but had not urinated on his dog in public) would not come over in the present market, and Dave Furner wouldn't have been here either.

Add to that the question of how long it must have been since a team won the GF with home-grown players at 6,7,9 and 13, let alone keep that axis together for 4 titles in 6 years.. It isn't just Leeds that will probably never produce a crop of players of that quality that close together in those key positions again. Even with all the right structures, the success of the academy production line in those few years was extraordinary. 10 of our 2004 GF 17 came through the academy. By the end of the 2009 season you could add Lee Smith, Carl Ablett, Ryan Hall, Nick Scruton and Luke Burgess to the list. That's an extraordinary number of winners medals straight from the academy. It's been great, but it's not replicable.

Our teams since 2011 are replicable. Yes, you would struggle to repeat 2004 and 2005, but then again we have made not efforts to repeat it anyway.

Re: Getting left behind? : Tue Oct 21, 2014 2:16 pm  

El Diablo wrote:

Probably not. Finishing 2nd, with a pot in the bank and a bit of late season form would make things look different. But if my auntie had balls she'd be my uncle. The trouble with living by the "doing it when it matters" approach is that you have nothing to fall back on when you don't do it when it matters.

In any case, in evaluating this year, I don't think it was such a terrible year. It's my expectations an optimism for next year that's the concern for me. And I am usually (see, well, most of my posts) quite optimistic about this sort of thing.

Fair enough.

I just think Leeds have played the system for how it is these last few years and particularly this year when clearly targeting the CC. With just a little bit more concentration and desire we would have finished top and if next years system was in place this year, and we had to be in the top 4 or out of the play offs, then we wouldnt have been afforded the luxury of taking the foot off the gas. Of course we ultimately ended up with egg on our faces this time but you can't really blame the players for that mind set as they have done it from outside the 4 twice.

Re: Getting left behind? : Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:12 pm  

Coulda woulda shoulda.

Re: Getting left behind? : Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:22 pm  

Those using the excuse of 'tossing it off' or 'playing the current system' also need to take into account that other teams (certainly Wigan, Wire and Hudds) we're also 'playing the system' this year, hence Cas finishing the season so high.

With recent performances, I'd expect all three of those teams to be able to perform well consistently more often than Leeds.

One other worry is that the 'bully boy' tactics worked so well against us. Wigan set the blueprint on that front - even Leigh troubled us using the same tactics.

Re: Getting left behind? : Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:25 pm  

Superted wrote:

Those using the excuse of 'tossing it off' or 'playing the current system' also need to take into account that other teams (certainly Wigan, Wire and Hudds) we're also 'playing the system' this year, hence Cas finishing the season so high.

I probably wouldn't use Hudds as an example of a team playing the system.

Also Warrington I don't believe played the system this year I just think they honestly struggled early doors to life without Briers, Morley, Hodgson.