Re: The truth according to Gaz H : Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:25 pm  

It's ok people saying we aren't producing the likes of that group anymore.....no club is. Isn't the whole thing that the competition isn't producing the same level of player....why would are academy be immune from that fall?

If the measuring stick for making it has to be that they're as good as Sinfield then no one is going to make it.

Re: The truth according to Gaz H : Tue Nov 29, 2016 5:33 pm  

Well said Printer.

Re: The truth according to Gaz H : Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:57 pm  

It was obvious from McGuire's first handful of games off the bench in the first team that he was going to be big. Incredible pace, acceleration, evasion and eye for a gap - and the support play came soon after.

Lilley by contrast has few of these attributes but is a different kind of player, more along the lines of a 2010-2015 McGuire. I wouldn't write Lilley off, especially since he's coming into a much more unstable team, but I'd still say he's behind where McGuire was at an equivalent age.

Burrow might be a better comparison, but still a very different kind of player.

It's strange how these things change over time. McGuire seemed to burn brightly in the first few years of his career, and whilst he's had some good seasons in more recent years it is probably fair to say that persistent injuries have turned him into a shadow of the player he once was. By contrast Burrow never seemed to realise his potential until around 2011 when he was able to be a devastating broken-field runner on a fairly consistent basis, including in some big games. It's not surprising that the club want to keep them both for a final hurrah in 2017.

Back on topic, what's been most baffling over the past 5 years or so are the numbers of promising young players that have simply been let go with limited game time in the first team. Players like Hood, Mulhern etc would surely have benefited from a bit more nurturing, or have we suffered by having too many established players blocking key positions?

What was the point of signing Amor? Someone like BJB would have been pretty handy at times last year, as would McShane, who often looked the part e.g. WCC against Manly. I guess hindsight's a wonderful thing. No green shoots of recovery in the current academy set-up then?

Re: The truth according to Gaz H : Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:00 pm  

In a salary capped sport, there are going to be players like Hood and Mulhern who hit a point of being too expensive to be a reserve but not good enough for a first team wage, There are many players who we ideally we would have kept but couldn't...on the other hand Mulhern and Hood and Ward aren't really very good.

BJB, like McShane is a bit of a different proposition because they are decent level SL players but they can be a relatively big name elsewhere or a reserve at Leeds, any functioning market would see them move on.

Every squad in SL is far too thin for the amount of games played and every team is at one stage or another dipping in to a pool of players who aren't ready, are covering a position or aren't good enough. No team can overcome it, and injuries will happen, you just have to hope that your injuries are spread across positions and across the year.

I also wonder if that is one of the reasons for a dearth of half backs in SL right now, the prioritisation of the ability to cover multiple positions especially at youth level may be the reason we struggle in the specialised roles of halves and centres. Most centres are either big wingers or small 2nd rowers these days, and most halves need to be either a half/hooker or half/fullback.

Re: The truth according to Gaz H : Wed Nov 30, 2016 7:42 am  

ThePrinter wrote:

It's ok people saying we aren't producing the likes of that group anymore.....no club is. Isn't the whole thing that the competition isn't producing the same level of player....why would are academy be immune from that fall?

If the measuring stick for making it has to be that they're as good as Sinfield then no one is going to make it.

Surely it also relative to your competitors - would you say Leeds are producing the quality and quantity of youngsters the likes of Warrington, Saints and Wigan are?

Which of these 4 clubs appears to be on a downward curve?

Re: The truth according to Gaz H : Wed Nov 30, 2016 8:45 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Surely it also relative to your competitors - would you say Leeds are producing the quality and quantity of youngsters the likes of Warrington, Saints and Wigan are?

Which of these 4 clubs appears to be on a downward curve?

Both Warrington & Saints though have had to look outside their respective academies for half backs and full backs. Gidley, Sandow, Clarke for example and now Brown at the Wolves , Fages, Wallace, MacDonnell & now Smith etc at Saints. Although Smith did originally I think come through the Saints academy.
Our problem has been similar to so many organisations in that we did not replace players at their peak. But as others have said, including me, GH can be loyal to a fault, keeping hold of staff when they should really be moved on.
It worked in the past but needs to be revisited now.

Re: The truth according to Gaz H : Wed Nov 30, 2016 8:50 am  

Old Feller wrote:

Both Warrington & Saints though have had to look outside their respective academies for half backs and full backs. Gidley, Sandow, Clarke for example and now Brown at the Wolves , Fages, Wallace, MacDonnell & now Smith etc at Saints. Although Smith did originally I think come through the Saints academy.

But you seem to be looking purely at the here and now there, rather than the year after and ongoing.

Those teams have done exactly what Leeds were doing right, copied it and are about to see the success. Leeds moved away from it, and that is why we have the issue we have. You also missed off potentially the best two of the lot, Patten and Smith (although appreciate Smith came from our academy to them).

Re: The truth according to Gaz H : Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:09 am  

Gotcha wrote:

But you seem to be looking purely at the here and now there, rather than the year after and ongoing.

Those teams have done exactly what Leeds were doing right, copied it and are about to see the success. Leeds moved away from it, and that is why we have the issue we have. You also missed off potentially the best two of the lot, Patten and Smith (although appreciate Smith came from our academy to them).

I'm glad you know what will happen going forward, I don't so I'll stick to the here & now.
You may be correct only time will tell.
Patten, though, I do like from what I've seen.

Re: The truth according to Gaz H : Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:13 am  

Old Feller wrote:

I'm glad you know what will happen going forward, I don't so I'll stick to the here & now.
You may be correct only time will tell.
Patten, though, I do like from what I've seen.

I was on about the production of players which you were talking about.

Re: The truth according to Gaz H : Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:34 pm  

I am starting to feel like I did when we were on our way to going bust and we were asking questions like 'what is going on at Headingley?'